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Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by chromepursuit, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    LOL!! IF the "zealotry" word were to be actually applied........see above! ;D ;D ;D ;)
     
  2. Brian W

    Brian W Active Member

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    ---- :eek:
     

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  3. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Timjo,

    I already have it figured out. it would appear that a few others do not.


    Doug,

    Your reply explains more than you think...
    I have said this before, but I will give it another shot. I TAKE THE SKIN COMPLETELY OFF, flesh and pickle the skin, work up the form to accept, the completely removed, skin then attach the skin to the form, as close to the original state as I can. I complete the mount then mold the end result. What the completed piece becomes is a replica. I don't mold dead panfish.

    My reproductions process absolutely uses the method in the root definition of taxidermy. So guess what, there are reproductions out there that are none other than taxidermy.


    -Pete
     
  4. :)
     
  5. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Pete......I wasn't aware of your method for producing your replica. Thanks for filling me in on your process.

    However..LOL!! It makes no difference. Your finished product is NOT taxidermy IF the finished piece does not contain any parts of the original skin.

    When you skin, flesh and complete the mount, of course you're doing taxidermy. You leave the taxidermy process, however, and begin the model making process as soon as you make your mold and proceed to complete the replica.

    Yes, you are a "taxidermist" doing taxidermy in your first stage.

    You are not doing "taxidermy" when you begin the molding process. You have become a "mold maker". The result from your mold is a replica or reproduction.
    It has no inherent relationship to the original other than being a "copy" using inorganic materials.

    So, you are a taxidermist doing mold making and casting to produce a copy of a fish in an inert material. The finished product is, by definition, NOT taxidermy.

    The finished product, as creative and stunning as it may be, is no different than if your technique was used and rather than finish and paint your blank from your mold you did a wood carving based on the anatomy of your blank. That is not taxidermy either.

    You are more than a taxidermist....not many of us have the creative abilities that you and some others demonstrate. However, what you describe is not and cannot and should not be considered taxidermy in the true sense of the word.

    Other than in the "world of competitions" and their comp categories, I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to agree upon. ;D ;D
     
  6. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    Doug, I thought you got this.....Whether a "skin mount" or "replica mount", NEITHER are 'taxidermy'. 'Taxidermy' is the skill, activity or job of.....

    Pete does taxidermy. Re-read the MW definition you've gone with, think about it, and if you pay attention to the important pronouns Then you'll also see what the purpose of 'taxidermy' is.
     
  7. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    You must not have read or not understood my last post......
     

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  8. AnglingArtisan

    AnglingArtisan Well-Known Member

    Mr. Clinton...Did you "mount" Ms. Lewinsky while supposedly dabbling in your hobby of "taxidermy" in the oval office?
    Well, I guess that all depends on what your definition of "mount" and "taxidermy" and "is" is :p :p :p

    I did not "skin mount" that woman, but I used a "reproduction".
     

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  9. AnglingArtisan

    AnglingArtisan Well-Known Member

    AHHHHHH.......TAXIDERMY ;D
    IT'S SO CUT AND DRIED!!!
     

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  10. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Wow… Well, C’est la vie’.

    Kind of confirms a thought I had the other night.

    The creative mind will without a doubt experience persecution in the pursuit of advancement but that is merely a bump in the road to achievement.
    Pete Harum

    Rich, you crack me up :D
     
  11. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    ??? Your last post:

     
  12. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Pete, interesting comments. I'd be interested in hearing more about the thought you had the other night.

    Do you feel you're experiencing persecution in this discussion???? ???
     
  13. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Doug,
    It goes back to that underlying current I spoke of in the beginning.
    This topic is only a footnote to the prejudice that I have seen.
     
  14. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Pete,
    Let me say this, the method you have outlined in producing your "replicas" is, I believe, unique. I doubt that many taxidermists use that approach in their everyday fish work. I hope we can agree on that. ;)

    My part in this discussion was never meant to demean or attack any method used in the pursuit of either taxidermy or replica work...or any method or material used and certainly no individual using any of those methods or techniques.

    I merely attempted to answer a question about terminology. I really didn't expect that would be so divisive.

    I think I have made my position on terminology as clear as I possibly can. I prefer to have clarity in discussing the finished product of our efforts.

    Using the term "Taxidermy" to apply to all the methods of fish replication that can be utilized in today's world is overly broad and inappropriate, IMHO, in the truest sense of the word.

    The end product is what gets in the hands of our clients. Based on the definition of taxidermy if there is no part of the organic skin of his fish inherently incorporated in the "finished piece" it cannot be and should not be properly termed a mounted [taxidermied ??? ;D] fish IMHO.

    All this effort is only an attempt to provide clarity within our industry and among our clients.
     
  15. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    And Scott.....you're too metaphysical for me. LOL!

    I prefer basic traditional definitions.... ;)
     
  16. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    That is ok with me Doug,
    Whether you want to even consider an alternative perspective or not, here are a few observations from this thread with regard to basic traditional definitions:
    1.) Folks (including you) referring to a finished product as 'taxidermy' ; incorrect by definition
    2.) Folks (including you) extending the title 'taxidermist' to persons "capable of doing taxidermy" ; incorrect by definition
    3.) Folks (including you) not knowing the definition of 'mount'
    4.) Folks (including you) using a subjective interpretation of 'taxidermy' instead of the objective definition (to support a complete disassociation from custom replicas)

    I do admit, were it not for classes of animals other than fish, I'd see the historical value in your perspective on the definition of 'taxidermy.' I also admit, I haven't much changed my perspective from my first post.

    From the "traditional definition", it is evident to me that the purpose of 'taxidermy' is to make dead animals (beginning state) look like they did when alive (end state). If your methods work for you and your customers, that is ideal; still my focus is much more aligned with what Pete has said:

     
  17. dougp

    dougp Active Member


    Whether you want to even consider an alternative perspective or not, here are a few observations from this thread with regard to basic traditional definitions:
    1.) Folks (including you) referring to a finished product as 'taxidermy' ; incorrect by definition
    2.) Folks (including you) extending the title 'taxidermist' to persons "capable of doing taxidermy" ; incorrect by definition
    3.) Folks (including you) not knowing the definition of 'mount'
    4.) Folks (including you) using a subjective interpretation of 'taxidermy' instead of the objective definition (to support a complete disassociation from custom replicas)


    Scott, I think you should have preceeded the above with the caveat "IMHO". I don't agree that those points are "incorrect by definition."

    It seems that you prefer obfuscation rather than clarity.

    Some folks [including you] just want to go where no definition has gone before......... ;)
     
  18. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    This thread is becoming very redundant as one friend has mentioned ;) ;D

    I'll make this observation to try to close the gap here.

    Rick Lax of LAX TAXIDERMY in North. WI is well known in the muskie fishing community for his muskie replicas.

    Rick actually skins, fleshes, mounts and then molds and casts his replicas from those mounted fish. I assume Pete Harum uses a similar technique from what he mentioned.

    Rick is a taxidermist. Rick uses the method, technique, art or whatever you want to label it, to produce a copy of the fish Rick has mounted. The end result of that process is a replica made of inert material.

    That replica was obtained by processes using taxidermy, mold making, casting, blank prep and finally painting......the final piece is a replica fish from a reproduction in resin made from that mold.

    A replica of a mounted fish done by a taxidermist using various methods not inherent to taxidermy itself.


    Now we have Joe Potsivokin......Joe is a mold maker of some repute. Joe can make a mold of darn near anything. He's good! He has a client who has a 48" musky. He wants Joe to make a mold and cast that fish in clay and fire it in a kiln to produce a ceramic version [thanks Frank K ;)] of his musky to please his wife who frowns on dead fish on the wall... ;D.

    So Joe preps the fish and poses that fish and molds it and does the ceramic thing. It turns out beautifully!! Client and wife love it!!

    Then we have Otto Ornivager.....Otto is an artist. He does a lot of terrific flat wildlife art. He has his work in many galleries. He also has a request from a friend to do a replica of the 20lb. steelhead he caught but won't tell where he caught it ::) ;). So Otto goes to a taxidermy supply website and buys a blank for that 20lber......does an awesome job with colors in acrylic after a little tweaking of the blank he received. His friend is very happy......... ;D ;D

    I'm sure there are other variations to these scenarios.

    I'll leave it up to the board viewers to decide for themselves what definitions they prefer and which terms best clarify the process and the end product.

    I do think that it is very cool that some of those considered to be the "best in the industry" have taken time to post here and share their views.
     
  19. Bryan Russell

    Bryan Russell Active Member

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    This is so confusing...... I'm still not sure what I do, but I've been doing it for over 35 years........... 8)
     
  20. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    LMAO!! Whatever IT is Bryan....you seem to do it very well!! ;) :D