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Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by chromepursuit, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one who looked up Derp?
     
  2. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    I wrote “THE” narrow minded limitation of a definition not “YOUR” narrow minded limitation of a definition.
    I don’t need to reread your post, my reading comprehension is just fine.
    Competition rules are governed by the criteria not by a definition.
    Not sure where you got the turning a friendship away thing. I will assume it was my statement of an interesting conversation based on your confession of using me to lure the creator of the piece out. As I see it the conversation would be enlightening. After all I am a passionate Artist just like yourself.

    No need to drop the Best before your name ;)
    -Pete
     

  3. Timjo

    Timjo Active Member

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    That's what I'm talking about ......... this thing has got out of control....Snap Crackle Pop!
    If you're hung up on the word "Taxidermy" get OUT of the buisiness or hobby. It is what it is... look it up in the dictionary. Most important description "Mounting Skin" Someone molding a dead fish and making a composite replica is not Taxidermy.
    Twist it any way you desire but, that's a fact Jack! :) ;) :D ;D :mad: :( :eek: 8) :eek: ??? ::) ??? :p :p :p :p :-[ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-\ :-X :-* :-X :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
     
  4. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    What is it? Frankenstein got a name. Axidermytay?

    There is a reason skilled skin mount taxidermists developed and continue to develop and use molding and casting for parts and whole animals. I suspect it's because the really important part of their work wasn't "mounting skin"; it was and is taking a dead animal and using their best faculties and resources to make a mount that best represents that animal. This is where Doug and I differ in opinion. His emphasis is on the means, not necessarily the ends.

    Evolution will happen long after us; and it's a fact, all the Johns will still think urethane fish are taxidermy, perpetuating the lie until its more alive than me and you. That is, unless Axidermytay catches on.

    Best, Scott
     
  5. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Timjo,
    I’m having a hard time deciphering your line of emotes… But I bet Bender is blowing a gasket over them, LOL ;D
    Not all of us mold dead fish, well, technically they are dead but I like to peel the skin off, work the body up some (in an attempt to make it look alive), Put the pieces back together then mold it. I’m not sure what you would call that anymore, although Axidermytay does sound pretty good.
    -Pete
     
  6. dougp

    dougp Active Member


    Boy Scott....you really went off the reservation with that statement!! LOL!! I'm not sure where to begin with disagreement. Much foolishness there.

    You say that you suspect the "really important part is not mounting the skin"......and my emphasis is on the "means" and not necessarily the ends" . I think your suspicions are off the mark.

    One thing I've noticed in this discussion is that many of us are looking at these definitions and "processes" through the eyes of "competitions."

    I'm not....I don't compete in "taxidermy competitions". My focus is on how the customer understands and views what it is that happens when he brings his or her fish in to either a taxidermist or mold maker to be "preserved" for display.

    I think that makes a big difference.

    To many of my customers, not all, the sentiment attached to preserving the original skin is very important. They want THEIR fish......!

    For those customers who choose C&R, well.......we have replicas, eh!

    I think the differences in these methods needs to be "defined"in terms we agree upon [within the industry] so we may better understand just what the heck WE are talking about in our discussions and also to better inform our customers of the differences in the various approaches used in the "taxidermy industry" today.
     
  7. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    Ok Doug, then why did they persue and do many taxidermists continue to persue molding and casting if the emphasis is on mounting the skin.
     
  8. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Geez Scott....even I use cast parts from some species in some of my skin mounts. However, I will usually mention to my customer exactly the parts that will be replicated, if any, in their mount. They will know what is "real" and what is not. If you would like to refer to that type mount as a "hybrid" I'll be on board with that.

    "why did they persue and do many taxidermists continue to persue molding and casting"


    I think we all know the why's of that without me elaborating.

    There are different reasons to have a fish mounted....there is nothing wrong with broading your base and learning different methods and techniques. I have also carved fish using reference from fish that I molded and cast. THAT is NOT taxidermy either!!

    Again, the orig. question was what to call somene who does ONLY replicas!

    MY point was and is....if you only mold a fish cast and paint the cast, it ain't taxidermy. That point is made to make it clear to everyone the process being used.

    I think your questions are becoming weak and labored. ;) Why don't you just give up and agree that a molded and cast fish is not taxidermy.....C'mon Scott! Ya know you want to! ;D
     
  9. AnglingArtisan

    AnglingArtisan Well-Known Member

    Taxidermy?
    You'd better flush out your head, new guy.
    This isn't about Taxidermy; this is a slaughter.
    If I'm gonna get my [email protected] blown off for a word,
    my word is

    PLASTIDERMY!
     

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  10. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    For me.....

    For me this is like Republicans and Democrats arguing ...... Or any two people arguing two sides of a topic. At the end of the day no matter what was discussed or "proven", everyone will still have their beliefs as they had at the beginning of the day. At least on Facebook one can gather more "LIKES" than the other and can declare themselves the WINNER! LMAO.

    For me if I mold a fish, and make a cast of that fish, and paint that cast, then that is taxidermy.

    For me if I buy a fish blank made by someone else and paint it, then that is not taxidermy.

    And don't bother trying to use "logic" because at the end of the day I will still have my opinion and you will have yours. I am thankful that my customers view it as taxidermy. If the answer was so cut and dry, then 100% of taxidermist would agree one way or the other on this topic, therefore there isn't a right or a wrong answer, just an opinion. And no one's opinion has anymore validity than mine.

    I am also a wildlife artist. Not saying I am good at it, just that I am. A lot of artists are famous in their own minds .......

    :)

    Kerby...
     
  11. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    For me this is like Republicans and Democrats arguing ...... Or any two people arguing two sides of a topic. At the end of the day no matter what was discussed or "proven", everyone will still have their beliefs as they had at the beginning of the day.

    Boy....you sure seem to be right about that!! ;D
     
  12. amigo

    amigo No habla Espanol

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    hmm. we are a passionate group whatever we call ourselves. ;D
     
  13. M.T.

    M.T. Active Member

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    I have a Ford F 150 and a firebird. The wife will ssometimes ask me which car I am taking. I always correct her and tell her we only have one car. She will then tell me "you know what I mean" and again I will correct her and tell her we have one car and one truck. That's what it is guys, a car and a truck, not two cars! They are not the same!
     
  14. Clew

    Clew Help a child, Build our future

    Taxidermy (from the Greek for arrangement of skin[1]) is the art of preparing, stuffing, and mounting the skins of animals (especially vertebrates) for display (e.g., as hunting trophies) or for other sources of study. Taxidermy can be done on all vertebrate species of animals, including mammals, birds, fish, reptiles, and amphibians.





    Primate and pachyderm taxidermy at the Rahmat International Wildlife Museum and Gallery, Medan, Sumatra, Indonesia.
    A person who practices taxidermy is called a taxidermist. Taxidermists may practice professionally for museums or as businesses catering to hunters and fishermen, or as amateurs, such as hobbyists, hunters, and fishermen. To practice taxidermy, one should be very familiar with anatomy, sculpture, and painting, as well as tanning.
     
  15. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Thought I would muddy the water a bit more. You know us Axidermytayist… ;)
    Before I do that however I want to address the reason this topic turned towards competition. You see the Competition realm and to a greater extent the World Taxidermy competition is where the advancements are pulled from their garages, basements, studios and shops to be put on public display. The industry leaders (in my opinion) that put on this show openly promote these advancements. I’m pretty sure they didn’t call the magazine Breakthrough because they adhere to an old world definition or method.

    So, on with the point… At the 2009 World show I had the pleasure of viewing a stunning piece created by a incredible Taxidermist and probably one of the nicest persons I have had the pleasure to meet. The piece I speak of was a beautiful recreation of a Gorilla. You could stand in front of it and swear it was about to move. It was that good. Thing is this stunning piece that used cast parts, imitation fur and NO skin won the coveted best of show for that year. Can you imagine that, Best of show in the World’s highest level of Taxidermy competition and it didn’t have any skin.

    Call it what you want, but I found this incredible display of Taxidermy skill a pleasure to view in person and something I will long remember.

    Axidermytayist and smaller fish,
    -Pete
     
  16. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    I like that M.T.!! Pretty simple to understand....I think..... ;)


    Pete,
    I agree with your take on competitions, however, I disagree that any "advancements" we've seen in those competitions requires changing the definition of the noun taxidermy. Words have definitions to be "definitive". Adding all the methods which use artificial parts and pieces under the narrow definition of taxidermy does muddy the waters as you mention.

    I assume the recreation gorilla you speak of was done by the super talented Wendi Christensen for the Milwaukee Public Museum in 2009. I've only seen pic of the piece but your right in that it was stunning!
    As you said, it was done without any skin. It was entererd in the re-creation category of the WTC competition. So, I suppose, we can't call it "hybrid" taxidermy [ a term I could accept], since there is no skin involved, we must simply call it a re-creation. I don't remember it being called "re-creation taxidermy" by the WTC.

    I submit that a noun [taxidermy] by itself, is defined in a dictionary to give a narrow meaning. If we add an adjective, such as replica, as in replica taxidermy, we modify the definition of "taxidermy" to mean something different.

    Therefore, replica work only [ or someone who does only replicas as asked in the original question ] cannot be taxidermy as defined by the noun only. It must be further defined using adjectives such as replica, reproduction, re-creation, etc.....to be descriptive and help clarify what process is being used to create the piece.


    I really like M.T.'s explanation.........a car ain't a truck even though it may get you to the same place!! ;D

    DougP
     
  17. naturalcreati40

    naturalcreati40 Active Member

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    I'm too busy to go back and read all this, I have too many reproductions to taxidermy....JUUUUUUUUST KIDDING, just trying humor this up a little. So can someone just tell me what ya'll decided??
     
  18. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    LOL! You're THE guy that started ALL THIS with your question!!! ;D ;D ;)

    NOW you have another question....!!! ??? :eek:

    LMAO!!
     
  19. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    Actually ..................

    Actually ............................... the sun does NOT rise in the east and set in the west ......................................











    Because it is the earth that rotates around the sun.

    :)

    Kerby...
     
  20. naturalcreati40

    naturalcreati40 Active Member

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    I know DougP right hahaha, and it was a totally innocent question too :-[. Like, I used to do skin mounts but decided I only want to do repro's now, so I guess I have to change my title from taxidermist to....well what ever. Because I have the ability to do skin mounts if I chose, right now, if someone wanted one, so that makes me a taxidermist right??? But because no one has even asked me to do a skin mount in about five years, I haven't refused anyone, I just haven't been asked. I will add that it's not my profession as it is for some of the guys/gals on here, so like someone mentioned, I'm a "hobbiest"...so, who cares. I don't care. Does any of this change anything as far as what I should call myself? Because I can do both. And I'm not being a Richard...I really just don't care what I'm called. I get money for producing a product that people love and it gives them joy. Call me what ever...this is just my opinion about me...no one else. You can call it, or title yourself what ever you want and I totally respect that.