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Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by antlerart, Nov 13, 2014.
Well I guess we should all quit using forms then....
I guess ill just keep being a hack then. I don't always use it but when I do it makes rotations easier. It gives me the opportunity to make adjustments after I put the skin on. I don't see bashing others for using it. Lmao shot you guys might as well quit using the damn foam forms.just another snap together gimmick
I do not have the time to take to respond to respond to the great taxidermist on here since I'm a nobody, but George and antlerman why don't you post some pictures of your great work and show us how it's done. Oh if you don't have any pictures of your work maybe one of the other "great" taxidermist will let you post some of their pictures. I will use only 2 words to describe your comments. Jealousy and ignorance.
Well I personally feel that taxidermy like anything is about art and expression. You can ask 10 different taxidermist how they do things and you'll get 10 different answers most likely. Does that mean they're 10 right answers nor 10 wrong answers. To each his own. And you need to respect that and I do as well.
I understand that people are going to do things differently and that's their choice. You have to do what is right for you. If you feel that tool is something that helps to make the mounting process easier and more creative and easier adjustments – then by all means I would use it. I'm sure some taxidermist would not feel that I need or should rely on using the McKenzie I setting tool that I had shown in the picture above to assist me in getting The proper I shape. Well perhaps when I get more more experience in time I will not feel as though I need to rely on the tool always. And perhaps I will. Only time will tell. But in the meantime I feel whatever person can do to increase their skills make Learning easier and result in a better quality mount, then by all means use it.
Being a avid Bowhunter for over 40 years and having shot virtually every kind of bow out there remind me what argument that was going on in our court concerning those who choose to shoot Traditional as well as those who choose the shoe compound bows and croft phone today! it's pretty much the same old rub and argument.
The traditional guys turn their nose up the compound bows and crossbows. They are the purists. They feel man is relying on modern technology and that's cheating. I remember when Allen released the first compound bow design in the late 1960s. Everybody was having a fit over it. Now today most everybody uses the compound bow or now even The newer crossbows as well. Same old argument still!
you got to do what's right for you and not worry about what everybody else thinks. Enough said Gunlock everyone. Find mine is enjoy what you're doing, strive to be the best and good luck
i could be wrong, but it seems like you all are talking about two different items, at least the way I read it. some seem to be discussing Vincents tool, others that black handled eye setting tool. maybe im wrong.
In my opinion, one has a place in shops (Vincents) and the other is a waste of money.
Well I had replied to the thread originally talking about the black tool. Personally I've used it and so has my mentor that's been a professional in the business for over 17 years now I am but once I got into this thread further and someone posted some pictures of the tool being discussed found out it wasn't the one I thought it was. In any case I'll continue to use what I like and everyone else should do the same as well.
And I have found it overtime in any form that sometimes when someone does things differently then someone else they are either hammer down for it, discriminated for the use of such etc. just for the sake of an argument.
If a person doesn't use these tools or see any value in them they can say so nicely without beating somebody down over it.
I love it, Vincent's tool is a great concept that gives an easy way to change Eye angle even after the deer is mounted and reasonably priced as well
I love it to Jerry, What a great tool to have among all the others tools that I have that HAS been reinvented over the years. It makes my life easier. But what I don't understand why would we slam somebody for making a tool that helps us do a better job in our craft?????????
I have the tool in question (Vincent's ez eye rotation tool) and i absolutely love it. I have used it on everything from cats to zebra's and cape buffalo. Yes every size requires a different cutter in case you are wondering. It simplifies eye rotation and makes setting eyes far far easier and far more accurate as it is adjustable all the way until it dries. I am not normally one who jumps on new tools but i am also not one to get stuck in old ways either. There are countless tool that have come around in the last 29 years since i started this wonderful art of taxidermy. Is it for everyone ... probably not but can it be a valuable asset... heck yes!! I make my living with production taxidermy for a large studio. I use it in both day to day commercial taxidermy as well as competition taxidermy. There will always be another new tool or variation on it. One just needs to look at a catalog and you can see several styles of almost everything. I mean how many types of eye tucking, skin adjusting and sculpting tools are there? fleshing beams etc... All work and i am sure some models work better for some than others. It would be nice if everyone remembers back to when they started and they were constantly looking for better ways. And where did most look...well they asked. Necessity is the mother of all inventions. I for one am happy Vincent decided to make this available to the rest of the industry. A huge thank you to Vincent for trying to help us all!
Here are two more words for whoever-----wannabe and neverwas.
HF, what I like most about people being alligator asses and hummingbird asses is that their eyes are usually bigger than their brains. I'm not double jointed so I can Pat myself in the back, but I have shared dozens of photos of my work that you could have seen if you had bothered to look. Nothing wrong with having a taxidermy hero, but idol worship doesn't make you successful or pay your mortgage. Name me a single one of your hero's who have more titles and laurels than a few dozen I can easily name who DON'T use this gimmick. Are you implying they are "never was" as well?
I don't think this has anything to do with idolizing anyone. Its a damn good tool for commercial taxidermists as we all are here. As I have discovered in the last few weeks working at jonas we rock through pieces like there's no tomorrow. This gimmick makes life easier on those pieces that we are rotating eyes on. Most aren't getting the rotated eyes but it offers a quick solution to eye rotation when needed and can be corrected if set a little off when banging pieces out. And I got pissed off when I realized I left it behind in sc. Ill get another one
Lance, MOST of us "commercial taxidermists" never worked at Jonas.
Always the spoil sport I guess. Rich, remember it was dead before you dug it up. I'm sorry, but that tool is just one more gimmick and I could care less who you are or what you are, if you are dependent on it, you really should spend some time studying reference and living animals. In this every growing world of snap-together taxidermy, this is just one more tool to make all your deer look exactly the same. You can't show excitement, anger, or rotation when you depend on it. In MY opinion, it fits right up there with the eye-level tool. It's only good for one size deer per one of the three tools. Go outside the parameters of the whitetail world and you're screwed. Get a bison, a pronghorn or a bear and you're hosed.
The only thing I can agree on is "Don't rely on this tool to solve all eye setting issues" use references tools and other instruments. One has to remember the eyeball sits in the boney socket and does not show expression or excitement or emotions as it only has muscles for rotation (some species more or less muscle). The eyeball is round for the most part on deer (scalar / vitreous body) and nothing else. All the expressions we see are on the outside is done with facial muscles, and eyelid muscles surrounding the eye. The examples that Joe Meader showed in a Breakthrough issues showed the deer expressions through the eyelids. The eyeball just rotates. I too seen the ball bearing article and for the most part, it is a lot like Vince's tool. Both will work and both are the same in that the eyeball only rotates in a socket. Vince took an idea and marketed it like a true business man. The whole idea with Vince's system is the ability to rotate the eye from a drastic rotation to a very slight rotation up to 2-3 days after the mount. This tool will not make deer look exactly the same unless they all have the same skull and eye sockets and facial muscles (an identical clone). For those that like the tool I would say thumbs up..... for those that haven't get with someone and try it out or talk with them. I would say though you need to know how to set an eye without this tool first and understand how and eye rotates. Is this just another snap together tool... only you can make that decision. As for myself I've leaned from people on eye setting from Joe Meader and Bill Yox. Both of which have a ton of great information on the eye and the angle the ball sits (for the most part the forms are close). This tool will and does from what I have experienced does allow this. So those that don't like it or have other views all I can say is to each their own. For those that like this tool like me.... we will agree on the benefits. Now for other animals their eyes are no different, the eyeball rotates in the skull and nothing else. Their all connected the same through the optical nerve at one point with muscles for rotation. Animals are all different and if you don't look at references and measure and understand you can get lost or in this case put out a bad mount.
When first I saw the tool, I wondered how it applied to what I do. I purchased the arbor and three cutting blades in sizes that would work for the 150 or so cats we do each year. I discovered it was extremely beneficial in producing consistent results with eye sets. I was trying to develope a system in my shop where I could hire a qualified taxidermist to produce a cat that looked like a cat that I had mounted. I had the bright idea of re sculpting my heads with the concave orbit already incorporated. With pre set eyes, I could control depth and width, but with this concept, I can control rotation, even after mounting. That has been a real game changer for me. Our goal is consistency. There are so many variables in what we do already, that this tool has helped revolutionize the way we do things, in our shop, we give two big thumbs up for "snap together" taxidermy.
Got to agree with Phil. If it makes the finished product better, then by all means "snap it together". Producing a consistently good and better end product should, in theory at least, allow for higher prices, so maybe the competition with bring their prices up and finally charge an appropriate fee for the art that this work truly can be.
Great tool Vincent, thanks for figuring this out and making it available! Now if we could just buy symmetrical forms, game head taxidermy would be a snap! 8)
Once again I agree with Rick Carter.. we all suck no matter what tools are available. Live deer make us look like fools..
Yes, but we love the challenge and gaining knowledge...
Too a point, but many look more foolish then others. LOL