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Hair slipping fox.

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Ozzwald86, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    Hi!
    I have problem with hair slipping with some of my fox skinns.
    When the hair slipps its often on its back close to the tail. Big chuncks falls off.
    This is how i do my skinns:
    1 put the frosen skinn i 15 liters of cold water and add 2 dl salt. Its stay there for about 8-10 hours.
    2 take out the skinn and starts fleshing it with a sharp spoon.
    3 wash the skinn with some shampo in a bucket. Its often now i realize the hair loss!
    Does anybody knows whats the problem is?
     
  2. Dont wash the skins before Salting. Fox skins are very easy to slip, but usualy on the belly. Shamppoo is not a good thing too. it has a very high pH.
    If your skins are frozen, wash it briefly and Salt it for 24 hour. then shake the old, and whith new salt for another 24 hours. Salt locks the hair.
     

  3. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    Thanks for the repy!
    I think you have a good point!
    The strange thing is that i have done around 120 fox furs
    And around 10 furs that the hair falls off. The rest turn out great!
    And i allways do the same steps!
    I have read that shampoo can be used when cleaning.
    I have a book about tanning and it says that when defrost furs add 1dl salt in 10 liters of water.
    The guy how has tought me has tanning for many years and has never had hair slipping on the back of the fox only on its belly. And he allways defrost like me and washing like me.
    I just cant understand what the problem is!
    The only reason i can come up with is that a push the spoon to hard so i mess upp the hair roots?
    But if i push less nothing will come off. ???
    Anyone how has the same problem?
     
  4. From this 10 furs, do you know how they were andled before frozen? if not skined and frozen in few hours they can have roten.
     
  5. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    Im not sure that every skinn has been treated good. But its a strange place to slipp hair?
    Its not around the shoot wound or on its belly its right upon its back. Have work with foxes that has been hanging for
    Weeks/months and not slipp hair. What do you think about pressning to hard with the spoon so the hairroots gets damage?
     
  6. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Anything done TOO much will obviously cause problems. It's difficult to troubleshoot your method without seeing you scrape. How come the other 120 didn't slip?

    Fox are prone to slipping. Losing 8% to slipping isn't a bad number but, of course, we hate to lose any hides. Unless you caught and dispatched all 120 of those fox yourself how can you know for sure how they were handled?
     
  7. Good Point, Cyclone! ;)
     
  8. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    I know for sure that at least 2 of the foxes was handled good but still lost hair
    because i shoot them my self and skinned them directly after they died.
    I can understand if it loses hair when it is shoot in the stomache.
    But i cant understand when i loses hair on its back when its not close to the shootwound.
    Yes its really strange that most of the pelts end up with the fur inplace!

    How do you guys defrost your frozen furs?
     
  9. 25 gr/L of Salt-0,2 gr/L MOLLESCAL C-0,2 ml/L Formic Acid
     
  10. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    I thaw mine generally just in the sink propped up to let any blood drain from the critter. usually overnight and it's ready in the morning to skin out. Or I will let it that in the fridge. I just want the skin to be loose. Most of the time the critters are still partially frozen when I'm skinning them.
    Loosing hair where you say is kind of strange. Have you tried stop rot and I'm not sure if you can get it there.
    also if the hair is slipping are you seeing the total hair shaft and roots or no roots at all? If you have no roots ( hair follicles) then you are cutting the them and that is the problem. If not then it's bacteria growth.
     
  11. muscle20

    muscle20 New Member

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    I think that you should not thaw your skins out for 8 to 10 hours in water and salt, thaw them out if you LIKE IN water and wash at the same time with no soap should only take an hour or so. Fox are thin skinned, after washing and draining place them in the pickle and agitate often, after a few days you can scrape off the membrane, the pickle will toughen up the skin and removing the membrane is very easy hardly any scraping, you can pull it off in large sheets at times, when working with fox time is of the essence when they are in the raw state, aim to get them in the pickle s.a.p.
     
  12. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    Its hard to writhe about this in english I hope you will understand.
    When it slipps the thin layer that holds the hair comes of.
    I can pull of areas with hair in size as 5*5 cm.
    When it slipps like this, when its big chuncks fall of with the " thin layer"
    do you think its rotten or the hair roots damage Frank E
    Maybe you answerd allready in your last reply, if so i did not understand
    About stop rot im not sure its avalible here in sweden?
    Muscle 20: dont you scrape of the fat or chunks of meet before pickle?
    I allways scrape off fat and flush and then pickle for about 24 h and then i scrape of everthing
    thats left after that i add alun in water.
     
  13. I allwais shave the meat and fat after salting and pickling and never have problems. 15 year ago, wen start my business, had many problems like that, because i Don't salted my furs. Bruce Rittels publications on Breakthrough open my eyes.
     
  14. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    Thanks oldfather!
     
  15. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Vad jag försöker säga här är när håret kommer ut ser längst ner i håret. Om botten av håret shat ser ut som det finns en lampa titt på den då din räv halka. Om det finns ingen lampa på undersidan av axeln då du har klippt in i hårsäcken och du rakat tunna.

    Kommer ut i klumpar som du uppgav orsakar låter som avvikelsen av bakterier och jag skulle tänka på hur tinar du ditt arbete.

    Jag hoppas att detta hjälper. Översatt av Bing för mig så jag hoppas jag ok för dig.
     
  16. Can you translate that? ;D
     
  17. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    In the books i have read it says that u should defrost frozen furs
    with a mix of 1 dl salt in 10 liters of water. Maybe is not enough salt???
    Most of the skins turns out great but some loses hair and maybe its those
    "Sensitive" skins that should needed more salt and the skins that has
    been handled good ends up ok???
     
  18. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    He used bing to translate. He explaind more of his last reply.
    How to see if the problems comes out of scraping to hard or bacteria.
     
  19. I think the problem is bacteria because if that's for the scraping the fur will loose hair in other locals too. Do you mean 10 gr Salt for Liter of watter?
    thawing for that time is too long! Thaw for less time or ad a Bactericide or ad more Salt! If you use Any commercial product like Mollescal (BASF) no need for Bactericide!
     
  20. Ozzwald86

    Ozzwald86 New Member

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    No 1 deciliter salt in 10 liters of water.