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Obama screws Taxidermy Industry - Ask By Golly about this.

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by George, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Marty, care to give me the names of two other taxidermists who know this "has been going on for some time"? Alfred E. Newman, "What, me worry?"
  2. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    C'mon George, I can't give you two taxidermists names that can balance their checkbook properly - lol!

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    My name won't be on that list either. LOL
  4. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Maybe they will be forced to move their form manufacturing to Canada or Mexico. That's what a lot of these WPA laws do. Rather than try to be reasonable about regulations they won't bend. Then companies go to places like China where there are no EPA rules and the amount of pollution is uncontrolled.
  5. Randy Miller

    Randy Miller Active Member

    Yup, I can hear it now. After placing an order with McK the gal taking the order says, "this will ship out tomorrow from Tijuana. UPS ok?" LOL!
  6. RichMO

    RichMO Well-Known Member

    We can (almost) all agree that Odumba is a failure....but you haven't seen nothing yet. Just wait till Hillary get in....
  7. Cousinwillie

    Cousinwillie New Member


    I would like to dispel some of the rhetoric and misinformation that surrounds the blowing agent changes that are upcoming in the industry.

    My name is Will Jarrell and I am the Market Manager for NCFI Polyurethanes, A major supplier of polyurethane foam to the taxidermy industry. For the past 22 years I have worked with nearly every Taxidermy form supplier in the US either directly or indirectly through other salespeople.

    First of all, I can attest that NCFI has the next generation of foams (non HFC) in the works and we already have formulations in place that work very well at the same densities as current foams in the marketplace. Good skins, but not too hard to rasp or pin. The new available blowing agents in many ways are easier to work with for manufacturers due to their physical characteristics. These changes have been coming for some time and we are prepared.

    The proposed ban on HFC's is a plan that has been in place for some time and is meant to address the global warming potential (GWP) associated with HFC's. The previous change in blowing agents happened back in 2003 when the Montreal Protocol phased out HCFC's such as R-22 and replaced them with HFC's such as 245fa and 134a. This was done to eliminate the ozone depletion (ODP)potential that was present in HCFCs. By and large, Our industry made the switch from HCFC 141b to HFC 245fa. Previous to this, the switch to eliminate CFC's was accomplished in 1991 when we moved from R-11 (freon) to 141b.

    There are some foam manufacturers that made the switch to hydrocarbon blowing agents such as Cyclopentane back in 2003 due to the savings in raw material costs. These costs had to be offset by the huge investments in creating a production environment friendly to flammable blowing agents. The companies that made the switch to these hydrocarbon blowing agents will not have to make the proposed switch as the global warming potential is very low compared to the currently used HFC's. NCFI was involved with educating these customers as we offer these hydrocarbon blown foams as well. The Taxidermy foam market to us is important and educating these very large manufacturers to the cost savings that could be realized is part of our service.

    Now keep in mind that the next generation blowing agents that we will be using for a majority of all our customers has 0 (Zero) global warming potential so while hydrocarbon blowing agents are not on the radar right now, they do have a GWP (albeit low), and may be slated for phase out at some later date.

    At this point in time a definite date has not been established as to when HFC's will be unavailable. The US had proposed that pour in place foams containing HFC's have a hard cut off date of Jan 1, 2017. Canada has proposed a more lengthy phase down of HFC's. The US and Canada tend to get together on these type of things, so it looks like now the dates might push out to between 2019-2022.

    The bottom line is that no definite date for the ban on HFC's in North America has been set in stone. Everybody in the Polyurethane Foam business is waiting to see what happens while trying to lobby for a longer, gradual phase-down. Either way, we have the next generation pour foams ready to roll when the time comes.

    NCFI Polyurethanes is ready for the changes and our customers (a majority of the suppliers in the US) will be seeing these new foams soon and will be able to verify my comments.

    Several of our customers will have next generation foam forms at the World Show in a few weeks so ask about it if you're there.

    Feel free to post your questions and I will try and answer them as my schedule allows.

    Thanks for the opportunity to shed some light from an industry insider perspective.

    Visit us at www.ncfi.com.
  8. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

    Thank you for putting the correct light on this subject.

    How is the cost comparison with the new foams going to be for the taxidermy suppliers? As always we are all concerned about price increases.
  9. Cousinwillie

    Cousinwillie New Member

    Right now its hard to tell where costs will come out as there are are a few different choices as to alternative blowing agents that can be used. Some are approximately the same cost as the current blowing agents and some are actually a little less expensive.

    What complicates things is that there is a patent dispute between two major, very, very large companies as to who owns what intellectual property and who owns what molecules. Politics is involved and we have to walk a line very gingerly so as to not burn bridges we may need to run back across. The best thing that could happen would be that the two suppliers continue to slug it out and drive down costs but who knows what may happen there.

    We have our formulas 98% of where we want them to be and will be working continually to improve them. We're never really satisfied with where we are as we are continually striving to make things better but technology improvements in raw materials will be made as time gets closer to a published date.

    Nothing gets things really moving like a deadline.

    It is a technological challenge no doubt as many raw materials we could use before with HFC's cannot be used with the zero GWP foams but right now we have next generation systems that customers would love and we will be refining them to make sure the transition (whenever it happens) is smooth.
  10. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    It is nice to get actual information from someone in the business over others that "heard" from someone who heard it from someone else.
  11. Will, thank you for your post. When this thread started I called Rick Rose (also with NCFI) to get the correct and up to date info. He told me exactly what you posted. He also said that over 2 million gallons of the new foam has been sprayed to line potato cellars with great success and no issues. He stated that if you didn't know the foams had been changed you would never know the difference between the "old" and new generation foams. It's great to know the sky isn't falling. thanks again Will. Talk to you soon, Dale
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Thank you Will. I just received similar information from a major taxidermy supplier this morning. I appreciate the education.
  13. Cousinwillie

    Cousinwillie New Member

    These next generation blowing agents (BA's) are even newer than the blowing agents used in the spray foam for the potato cellars that Rick Rose spoke about. That blowing agent is an another HFC (365mfc) that became available as the patent on HFC 245fa expired in 2013.

    The new blowing agents are being used in a very limited scope right now in mostly government work as the administration is mandating their use to try and pull them into the market ahead of any deadline. Thats about as political as I'll get on a open forum! They are not without issues but they are being worked through and as a deadline draws near (whenever that is..), technology will move along to match it. Too much money at stake for it not to.

    The nice thing about the new BA's are that they have higher boiling points and will allow us to most likely put material in plastic drums. Customer's usually like being able to get material in drums they can see though (to check level). Also less likely to have material going "flat" if drums are accidentally left open.

    Everything is going to be fine and as far as NCFI Polyurethanes goes, we are ahead of the curve for sure.

    I'll be glad to answer any questions anybody might have.

  14. Ted

    Ted Member

    Jerry, Do you really believe your government??? Do you think they will make an exception for taxidermists?? Maybe if we give Bill $500,000 to speak at the NTA conference and a $1 million to the Clinton foundation they will hear us.

    Sounds kind of like the new wetlands regulations. EPA is just "clarifying the rules". Twenty years ago the EPA had no say in wetlands; only the Corps of Engineers did. I used to 404 permits or waivers without much hassle. Just try it today!
  15. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    EPA is a BA, blowing agency
  16. JL

    JL Taxidermist for 64 years

    OK....BIG ANNOUNCEMENT !!! I'm going to open a PAPER MACHE FORM SCHOOL and become the paper mache form guru like Rick Krane has done with fish painting. Anyone interested in learning this technique should learn from a master as these are what I started doing taxidermy with back in the fifties. Here's your chance to beat the crowds of would-be-taxidermists who will have to learn this process or get out of the business. Or you can open up a paper mache head form supply co. Will start from scratch..bring your boiled out skulls and measurements, 40 pounds of molding plaster, thirty pounds of Plastiline clay, several rolls of Rosin Paper, five pounds of dextrin paste ( dry), a box of rubber groves and a suitable back panel. Can teach a small class the process in a month. Don't wait, the class will surely fill up quickly. Also can give catch-up lessons to old timers who have forgotten the process. George.....are you listening? Don't miss out...register now. JL
  17. Wingnut

    Wingnut Member

    I think the logical answer to this entire problem is that we don't elect another "Blowing Agent" to run our country! And, keep all the other "BA's" in the Senate and Congress out of our business! LOL
  18. Will, great to hear from you, I just talked with Alan about this the other day, I know you guys have been cooking away at a new alternative for a few years now, I'm sure when we all do have to make the switch it will go smoothly.

    Hope to see you sometime soon, too bad now that Surrys gone, but I'm sure well see you around.