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Are artificial bird heads needed?

Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by Primetines, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. alan webfoot

    alan webfoot New Member

    glasseye that is one super looking wrapped body ,that's how I learned ,OLD SCHOOL aint out for recess yet,I carve all my bodies BUT it's nice to know if I need to I can fall back on other methods
  2. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    I think that is bunk. And any one with just a few artificial heads' experience would take your money.

    With the real head you still have to dremel out the eyes. You have to scrape every bit of flesh from it, and then thoroughly clean it. You still have to drill for wire attachment, and you have to inject the fleshy parts of the bill, make any repairs from shot, … And then you have the added time to fill and sculpt the head. You also have the added consideration of masking off every bit of the complex bill/skin line for primer and painting, and you do not have the easy access to all angles of the bill of those using an artificial.

    Dremeling out the nostrils takes about 1 minute at tops, glueing around the bill takes no more than 2, going slow, and any one with just a bit of experience can do it without the "glue line with the skin/bill connection visible from across the room" you claim.

  3. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I mounted my first bird in1964 and used excelsior and original heads for decades. I happened on this website some years ago and could not understand how anyone could use an artificial head and pay for a body. I mean cutting the skin away from a head and using super glue around feathers. My gosh I can't use that stuff without gluing my fingers together let alone getting it around bird feathers. I decided to spend a week at Stefan Savides' shop and see how this is done. When I returned home my excelsior went in the burn pile and I went primarily to artificial heads on waterfowl. There are those birds that are different size than the generic heads. In that case I'll either cast one or use the original head.
    I realize the older we get the worse change gets. This website and Breakthrough have got me to move out of my comfort zone. I've tried skinning birds with a breast incision, back and leg to leg. I know my fingers couldn't handle wrapping bodies anymore.
    Time is money and most taxidermists are always behind
  4. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    For someone with very little personal experience with birds other than reading tutorials, you are so knowledgeable ??? Lets see what you left out.....casting the head (or hoping a generic manufactures one will work), drilling out the wire connection area, sanding and fixing any imperfections (shot holes), connecting the head correctly, working on the head /neck junction, painting the bill, and dremelling out the same eye sockets before setting the same eyes. Post up some close up's of your banner work so we can see how all of this "bit of experience" stacks up on the subject of how easy using artificial heads must be since smallie says so...I never said I haven't used artificial heads so I know what it takes for good results. I "personally" get better results in a fraction of the time by not using them.

    By the way Smallie, have you even mounted one using the real skull or are you just talking from behind other's experiences ? I love how you say "others" would take my money yet you didn't mention yourself . Safe mouthing off when putting others money where their mouths are...
  5. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    Talk about a reading comprehension problem, along with being full of yourself (spelled crappola).

    You fill the eye socket so perfectly that you don't need to dremel it at all before setting the eyes?

    You don't need to create a connection for the wire?

    You don't connect the head properly or create a head to neck junction?

    You don't paint the bill?

    I have posted my hobbyist work, and yours look no better, IMHO. And yours certainly is worse than many of the pros. And awards used as you use them when delivering a lesser product is disgusting.

    Obviously you do since you keep disparaging others, and reply to every comment which disagrees with yours.

    :D :D :D
  6. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    Yes I include myself in the "others" that could use a quality commercial waterfowl artificial head 95% of the time v quality job with real head: without any doubt. I do not believe that Ted Weyenberg, Tony, … are cheating their clients with a scheme and worthless idea.

    Quite safe of you challenging others to bets, and inviting to fights, over the internet duxster.

  7. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    My point is if you don't have personal experience with a topic...artificial AND real then SHUT UP !!! You post up "how to" bunk all the time knowing dang well you are just rehashing what someone told you or you read somewhere. So SAD...

    You want to bet let's bet. Take a personal bird to your state show and I will do the same. Whoever does best wins (points, awards, etc).....easy enough isn't it. Should be easy enough to beat someone using a real skull in the Master's Division. They take it somewhat easy on you in the Professional division. No hiding here...
  8. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    Real vs fake. Which is which? What do you see?

    Mounted with her real head and real bill.
    1st in the Open Div, WTC.

  9. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    I keep looking at that surf, comparing it to my reference, and trying to figure out which part of the feather-to-bill line you're talking about.
    What area are you looking at?
  10. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    And NOT A SINGLE sharing of info of mine in answer to someone's question was from a bit of info from you. Not one bit of anything you have ever posted was worthy of sharing or helpful, to anyone that I have seen.

    At least I do regularly take the time to help others: whether from personal experience on dozens birds or info that others with credibility have shared.

    You don't have a clue duxter. I HAVE personal experience with the topic...

    So take your own advice and SHUT UP - you who brings so little to the table yet according to yourself, knows so much.

    Obviously you do since you keep disparaging others, and AGAIN reply to every comment which disagrees with yours.

    And funny how you revise your posts after someone quotes something of yours you do not like.
  11. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    Smallie, So how much you betting ? You seem to have skipped that question..... Step up or shut up

    I deleted that comment that you apparently must quote every post now while you were quoting it the first time.( notice your post time vs my modifying time ::) ) I promise your opinion means nada but if you think you are good enough to criticize other's work then you need to be man enough to take their challenge.
  12. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    I assume one is real and the other is artificial which leads back to my point of if done correctly both methods can produce awesome results. Some people can never reach such results no matter what method they try. All three birds are of top notch quality IMO
  13. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    You seem to have skipped every question in each of my previous comments - curious.

    Jethro you are really funny.

    And you are drunk and on drugs if you think your saying so will shut me up. Grow up.
  14. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    Where did I ever criticize any one's work? Not once, you ignorant bully.

    And if you believe there are not others here whose work is much better than yours, then Jethro you are certifiably delusional.
  15. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    When you grow up, my offer will still stand. You said my work was no better than yours. I simply am seeing if you want a judge to clarify that for us. Apparently you don't. You are jumping on the band wagon that using real skulls can't be done in a timely or quality fashion so I was offering you a chance to both prove your work was equal and that using the real thing was a waste of time. There again YOU said anyone with any experience with artificial heads could out do my method (without even knowing what my method even is). You not classified as anyone ?

    I probably wouldn't use the words "certifiably delusional" when saying that I somewhere said no one was better than me. Please quote that for me...I have NEVER said anything of the like.There are plenty of people a hell of a lot better than me. Now if you want to shout those words while looking in a mirror, shout away.

    It isn't too hard to comprehend "There are people who do both methods justice and others who can't ". Nancy pretty much proved my point of it being very possible if handled by the right person.
  16. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    I don't need someone else to determine that for me Jethro.

    There are blue ribbons given out at every event. Big deal. Are the birds that have won all the blue ribbons all the same caliber? No. And at every event where WASCO gives out an award, they give out an award. Are all the birds that have won one the same caliber? No.

    There are so many here who do not need others to judge their work, and don't enter competitions. And many do it for the sole, useful purpose to have the judges help them improve their work.

    I NEVER said otherwise. Never. Again, you and your poor reading comprehension. (Or just your repeated purposeful twisting of the truth.)

    The topic began when you challenged and bet George about time spent …

    And my reply to your assertion …

  17. txoutdoors

    txoutdoors Active Member

    Sometimes I think you people would argue about anything. Who gives a shit about means and methods as long as the end result is good quality. We all know there are more than one way to skin a cat (or duck... Lol). To each his own.

    I personally like to keep an open mind and try things I see others post if I think it will result in a higher quality product. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything.
  18. Fake head , real head both work just fine ! Those that have a problem doing a good real head went to artificial and never looked back. Those that can do a good real head have no need for an artificial head . Some of the excuses you ALL use to defend one vs the other are nothing more than a self opinionated responses.
    Ribbon, trophies, awards shouldn't even be brought into the equation. Does not having one of those make one a failure at his trade ? Does having one of those make one successful in his trade ? No matter what type of canvas we choose to use. As long as our customers think we are Gods gift to taxidermy, and willing to pay us for our services. Then your successful.
    Bets ......... I would be willing to bet not a single customer give a rats behind what inside his duck as long as it looks like a duck.

    here is a line in a song that's says.

    no body's right if everybody's wrong !
    (ad libbing)
    stop taxidermist whats that sound another argument going down
    I know I know , but I couldn't help it :D
    Mandy300983 likes this.
  19. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    Good post Glenn. Agreed 100%.
  20. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Geez Glenn, you're OLD. 1967 Buffalo Springfield, "For What It's Worth."