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Are artificial bird heads needed?

Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by Primetines, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

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    no one was arguing until museum man and roof joined in
     
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    No one was arguing until you brought your ignorance in here. Post some pictures of this fantastic work of yours RedWolf.
     

  3. Dang it George, I just couldn't think of a Rap song that would work ! I recon I could have used Old Hippie . That moved me up a few decades. ;)

    'Cause he's an old hippie 8)
    And he don't know what to do :-\
    Should he hang on to the old :-\
    Should he grab on to the new. :-X

    He's and old hippie 8)
    This new life is just a bust :'(
    He ain't trying to change nobody ::)
    He's just trying real hard to adjust. :eek:

    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
     
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I guess I can take that as a compliment since you implied Tony Finazzo, Joe Ferebee, and Stefan Savides were no big deals and Nancy couldn't get the "feathers to bill line" correct on her scoters. I guess no one's as good as you : A legend in your own mind.
     
  5. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    I really thought my posts were user friendly. I clearly said to use what ever works best for you and gave my opinion as someone who has used both over the years...I don't see anything I said as cutting you down byrdman in any of my wording...give me a break ace...
     
  6. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    again, my opinon, just as the poster asked for...I also stated to use whatever works for you....you left that part out....why your giving me crap I don't see...hellen keller could have understood my posts....change is good sometimes...
     
  7. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Well only us "Bird Brains" would get our feathers ruffled over a small piece of cast material. I was going to say plastic but realized my folly before posting that.
     
  8. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    there is an old saying......I can say anything I want as long as its something you want to hear! my key use of these heads as I stated before was that they are more sanitary for longevity...very simple to understand......if you are a die hard old school taxidermist and really like the real bills then go for what you know....
     
  9. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Thank you Museum Man. You're just more genteel in saying it than I was. I still love the line from Quigley Down Under when guys bring up these antiquated methods, "Never said I couldn't do it. Said I never much cared for it."
     
  10. webfoot123

    webfoot123 New Member

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    Byrdman not wanting to get involved in all of this arguing over what method is best but was just wondering if you ever done the tutorial on mounting a bird with wrapped body and real head and if I just missed it THANKS
     
  11. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    Told by who ? Post it plz because I know a lot of people would like to see it
     
  12. Wingnut

    Wingnut Member

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    Here is an interesting "twist" to cast head work, a taxidermists entire collection of North American Waterfowl was NOT accepted by a large museum as a "gift", with NO write-off wanted, due to the entire collection being made with generic "cast heads"! The cast heads took away ALL of the scientific information needed in measurements for the birds,,,,,so, the needed information as "study" birds was not useable!!! That, is an interesting twist! The collection was deemed worthless " with NO scientific value"!!! Don't that beat all!!!
     
  13. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Byrdman, I'd be interested in seeing a tutorial. That's not a catty remark either. Without wraps some of the finest bird bodies I've ever seen and watching how it's done would be educational to anyone.
     
  14. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    study skins are a different thing than mounted birds....study skins are filled with cotton and sewn up, with no eyes or wires...simply skins of the bird for overall study....every museum has a separate collection for both mounts and study skins.....if they were interested in study skins then that's the reason they turned down the collection....big difference between the two
     
  15. HUYE

    HUYE Member

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    Wingnut aka David Luke, does not have the two confused. He has a vast resume of museum work, and that includes study skins. In my opinion, when done properly , natural bills are superior to commercial reproduction heads. Plugged nasal passages , loss of detail , and little to no lamellae . Not to mention the correct statement by Mr. Luke, the inevitable loss of scientific value. In the avian world a lot of information lies in the bill itself. Especially when trying to determine subspecies, which would include waterfowl. Once you cut that off its scientific integrity has been compromised.
     
  16. huntingbig

    huntingbig Member

    Jay your reply couldn't have been better, I guess I will never figure out people in this world, just because someone chooses to use an real head over an artificial one, world war 3 starts and people are willing to kill over their opinion, I guess its a good thing they are on the internet and not in the same room or we would have a mess to clean up. I have seen real heads done to perfection and also done lousy, same for artificial ones. Jay has had judges in competition not know the difference, as for Mr. Luke he has mounts that are 40 years old with the real head and still look impeccable. Just because a man sells cast parts and forms does not mean he uses them everyday, there is such a thing as pushing a product to make money, why do you think most of the videos on the market today use all the supplies in the making of that video from their sponsor, its business that's all. Nancy's bird photos should prove to all that if done properly you have to guess which is which. Use what will give you the best result for you, they both will outlast your clients, remember folks we are in this to make money not just try to outdo the next guy, if you get good results and longevity with a real head and it is faster then do it, if you get better results with artificial then do that.
     
  17. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    Hmmm .... since this thread has resurfaced I'm going to go ahead and reveal the truth about the scoters.

    If you read what I said very carefully you will see that I never said that one was real and one was fake. (Okay, I sort of implied it, but the trick only worked because I know how people tend to read into statements rather than read from them.)
    Anyway, both scoters used the real head and the skin was never separated from the bill on either of them. So, Byrdman, the marriage line on the surf scoter is exactly the way that Nature made it. I didn't mess with it.
    I normally only use cast heads for large birds or those with a lot of soft tissue on their bills, like eiders and etc. Scoters have hard, bony bills and the small amount of shrinkage which occurs is easily fixed.

    I'm a strong believer in knowing how to use both methods. Why would anybody knowingly want to limit their own options?
     
  18. Ego. It's hard to draw a line in the sand so you can tell the other side they're wrong if you openly admit there is advantages to both methods. How are you going to argue if you don't pick a side?
     
  19. roonie

    roonie Member

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    hold the phone...i gotta get more popcorn and drink
     
  20. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Byrdman, you've been had. Just admit it and move on. You were the only one who "knew" which one was artificial and you pointed out a specific flaw allowing you to know which one. I see it as the "fatal flaw" in many taxidermy judges in being exposed for not knowing what they "know". I know I didn't venture an opinion because they looked too similar and for all I knew, they could both been artificial.

    Well played, Nancy.