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world taxidermy championships.

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by joker, May 13, 2015.

  1. It seems to me too many of the judges at this show are out of sink. Score with way to much spread and people I think are purposefully trying to hold back others with there ridiculous notions of what is quality taxidermy. There were several categories where second and third were not given out. Not saying that mine should have won, but there were plenty that should have. This kind of practice will hurt in the long run. Give out the awards that many people have traveled so far and worked so hard to receive. I love this show and have attended every one since 1995 and I'm not sure if I will continue if this is going on. OK I am done ranting.
     
  2. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    It's always been that way. it should be to the highest standard. I had one piece that was the highest score in it's division , a second piece that was third highest , neither won. They could have but shouldn't have. My critiques were spot on with very few things that were wrong. I agreed after the flaws were pointed out that they shouldn't have won even though they could have placed 1st and 3rd in the world. Just my opinion of course but I don't want one of my mounts to win if it's not deserving just because I showed up. It's not a race where there has to been winners. Just because you travel a long ways and work real hard doesn't mean the mount should win.
     

  3. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    What a great attitude Jerry. You are an awesome artist. I can tell you it makes it even more sweet when it does happen for you
     
  4. X2
     
  5. Jerry, I think you are missing the point here. I never said I think someone should win just because they drove a long ways or just because they showed up. I realize there needs to be a standard. When you see scores like 91,92, and 83 on the same mount something is not right. Why do you see a first and no second and no third and you never see a third and no first or second. When you have thirty entries in one category and a first but no second or third something is wrong. surly you can find a second and third as well. I feel like people are holding others to a standard that they themselves can not meet. I get comments that tell me the person judging the animal I mounted knows vary little about it. Some things that I know for fact. When they use words like always and never.
     
  6. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    It's been said by the best of the best your piece is only as good as the judge says that day. So, if at the world competition your mount scores the highest aren't you the best that day? These guys had the stones to compete for the title. Just food for though, what do you guys think. I could care less either way, I'll never reach that level. So if nobody won best in world in a category this year is the guy that won last year is the best in the world still? That's how I see it, then last years best in world winner should get the plaque for this year.

    Let's just say someone won best in world in 2013 in a category and nobody won best in world this year. They are still best in world so they should get the award again in 2015 right?
     
  7. KFLAH

    KFLAH Active Member

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    If a runner in the world championships or Olympics wins his final but does not break the world record that was set by another runner, is he still considered the world champion?
     
  8. That is the truth and no less a champion. Just because a fighter didn't knock out his deponent in the first round like the last one did, don't mean he is the the new chapion.
     
  9. Ken Walker scored a 99 with his Ring Tailed cat, so I guess we all have to score 100 to be the world champion.
     
  10. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    This is really splitting hairs here. Maybe they should modify it to be more specific.

    2015 Large Mammal lifesize World Champion

    That will cure it all. Get a grip.
     
  11. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Since I don't play, most of you who do think I have no right to an opinion, but you're going to get it anyway. This is exactly why competitions are so elitist and taxidermy is looked on as a strange practice by the outside world. I've seen behind the scenes and I could cite dozens of examples how egos-both from competitors AND JUDGES- affect these outcomes. The apologizes and rationalized always try to allay guilt on those who question the way the game is played.

    If one person will provide me with JUST ONE EXAMPLE of any discipline where "world championship" is held and no one is a "winner", I'll change my position. The real trouble is that the judges know they have a stake in this. I know several of the very best taxidermists who refused to enter pieces where the deemed the judge "unqualified" for various reasons. I know one taxidermist who pulled a piece from the "masters" division and entered it in the "professional" because of judging. The trouble with having a excellent memory is that I know where the bodies were buried
     
  12. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    In competitions where the goal is to meet or surpass a standard rather than merely to out-do the other competitors, it isn't unusual for there to be no first place winners.
    But maybe these examples don't count since they don't use the precise term "world championship."

    http://slippedisc.com/2015/02/no-winner-at-the-solti-competition/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Tchaikovsky_Competition

    (many more examples are available from various music competitions held around the world)

    This one isn't related to music: https://competition.adesignaward.com/awardlevels.html

    Read down to the Academic Ranking section and you will see that they sometimes don't give out their highest award.

    All of the competitions in these links relate to some form of art which requires a competitor to first master its basic techniques, or what we would call craftsmanship in taxidermy.
    Sound familiar?
    Wanna bet whether or not they have all the same types of cliques and complaints about the judges that we see in taxidermy?
     
  13. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    My wife's hobby is dog training so she goes to obedience dog shows. I have seen it several times where they will give a first and third place but no second place; even if the dog qualifies. I have also seen them give a third but no first or second (some of those dog show people really get p'd about this). It is the judges decision (and I believe I read it in the AKC rules where they can do this) that if they feel no one rates it then the placing does not have to be given out. Why would taxidermy be any different? I think Jerry is right on with his comments.

    Vic
     
  14. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

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    All I heard was that it was tough judging this year. I didn't enter Masters because I knew it was going to be super tough judging and I'm not at a level to do that Division justice at a World Show. I ended up with 2 seconds and a third in the Pro Division fish. Realizing the judging should be tougher than a State show, I'm ok with the results and the critiques so I can get better.
    I was surprised to hear of so few blues in the Masters Division for both cold and warm water fish. I think just one. And I don't know how this compares to prior shows as this was my first World Show entries.
     
  15. RichMO

    RichMO Well-Known Member

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    I can see both sides and while I have no problem with their not being a winner especially in the Masters division I can see a winner in professional division. In fact as I was standing next to a judge he made a comment to another person (not a judge) that a certain piece would win and guess what "it did". One thing their is a large amount of Conceit and Ego within the show. Judges need to all be changed out so as to not attitudes set in... (we already have that in congress with old people that keep getting elected) and get new faces, ideas, and new set of eyes. I made a comment to a participant that there would not be a winner again with a Large Mouth Bass... I called that one right and I agree with the judges for the Masters area. To many times the people in the Professional Division are judged as if they were Masters at the WTC and the definition of Professional has many meaning one of which is "engaged in by persons receiving financial return ". The Masters is for those that are truly after the Art to the highest standard. Time to back out of this conversation and let it die... Competitions will go on ... People will disagree.... some happy and some not, but the one thing is if a judge has been judging at more than one WTC they need to move on and let others judge. Sorry if this pisses people off but we have all seen things we don't like....
     
  16. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    The problem is the "standard" has been moving for years and is inherintly inconsistent because the judges are not the same from show to show. I perceive some of the recent entries that don't reach the "90" world title qualifying milestone are better than mounts that have won world titles. Maybe I'm wrong, but, am I?
    Scott
     
  17. Scott, that is one of the comments that I made. Some of the judges are trying to hold us to a standard they themselves can't achieve. When they right down comments like an otters nostrills should be closed under water. Well I say unless it is letting air out, then they are open. Using words like never and always when talking about nature is absurd. There were plenty of high quality mounts at this tears world show in the mammals to give out those awards. When you have huge spreads in scores that is where the trouble lies.
     
  18. Amy

    Amy Mammal artist

    Getting a 92/92/84 (89.33) on one of my pieces - so close but no cigar - was surprising. But you win some and you lose some .. Sometimes we are given more than we deserved at a show and other times we lose something we might should have been given. It does seem hard to hold to a rigid standard when you're dealing with different judges and their own preferences and human error. A different lineup of judges or even just having one or two different could have yielded different results at this show. I'm just happy that I got that close .. I'm taking Ken Walker's advice for the next show: "Create something so great that it will make the judge look bad if he scores it low"
     
  19. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    Great replies and comments! So do you think a world champ mount in 1997 would have held up this year to win? Casting is casting and all the hairs still have to be in place.. Or is it something else? The "standard" should still be the same on a live specimen.
     
  20. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    Amy, I think that is good advice.

    Joker, it isn't about what the judges can or cannot achieve, to me, it's about consistency. I don't compete in these competitions, so my perspective is unbiased but without the benefit of insider knowledge and experience. While I greatly admire the world show and respect the judging and integrity of the competition, I just don't know that there is an enforceable consistent "standard" or method to concretely differentiate "best in world" quality over "best in category-masters" quality. That makes it difficult to effectively administrate awards consistently from year to year.

    If you don't want to give out "world champion" awards unless the "highest standard" has been achieved.....well, the reigning "world champion" mounts should be present to compete against, as they represent that highest level. Otherwise, best in category should get the nod as world champion, at least in my book.

    Best, Scott