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world taxidermy championships.

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by joker, May 13, 2015.

  1. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    No judge should have to go throught this abuse. When qualified people are hired to do a job, and that's what it is. You get their opinion. That's what was asked for. We won't always agree with their opinion, but that's what you get. The judge in this case is very accomplished and his integrity is much more important than the lack of respect that has been displayed in this post. Get over it and do better next time.
     
  2. George i just purchased that DVDs and watched the part 1 of it,all you did was asked the crowd if they had any questions and let the seminar flow.
    Must be alot of jealous people out there.how bad was that storm.
     

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tony, you and I will have to agree to disagree as well. Though your response is politically correct, judges are not sacrosanct and this industry needs to realize that. Ted Williams was the best man to hold a baseball bat, but he still failed 6 times out of 10 and was one of the worst baseball managers of all time. The personal accomplishments of an individual have no bearing as to how he views and treats others. We can either step up and call them out when they act like that or we can sit back and pretend this is all due solely on our own short comings. Bill Yox once noted on this forum that all too often a person wins this Pooh Bah award this year and next year he's the resident expert judge.
     
  4. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    A judge is going to give you his 'Oponion' so just be ready for it.

    George, Tony & I are 100% right on this. I'm not a competitor ( unless it's for work LOL ) but I think Ashley Barret is more than competent to judge and simply gave his opinion based on his profesional knowledge and personal opinion.
     
  5. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Oh $hit, I said the name everybody is tip toeing around..... is that bad?????????
     
  6. JEJ

    JEJ Active Member

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    No! This post was getting as annoying as when someone posts a big congrats to so and so and how awesome their competition piece that won some big award is but doesn't have a picture so no one other than those at the show have a freakin clue.
     
  7. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    George, we don't completely disagree on this. I have seen the Big Winner becomes the Judge scene Myself and I can't agree more that the best competitor is often not even a good judge let alone a great one. My whole point was that this post was turning into a Crucifixion and really drug down to a point that it takes away the whole World Show experience. Every other year we have arguments about Judges and Categories that have no Champion. We probably will always have that happen somewhere. Unfortunately it turns into a character assassination. Let it go. Live to fight another day. Because it just turns into Sour Grapes after a while.
     
  8. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    A lot of this could be resolved if the awards were given to the BOC winners. But you are correct, the poster's bias is in the way of any positive impact.
     
  9. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    Well money usually solves a lot of problems so Larry should double the registration fee and mount entry fee so he can send each prospective judge for psychological testing to weed out all pompous a$$es , rogues and your basic nut.
    He can then double the money the good judges earn, provide them with a tablet to use so they have reference photos and give them one more day to judge so they can do a thorough job. There problem solved! LOL


    If this doesn't work they should go to judge school. HA HA
     
  10. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Michael I love you but sometimes you allow emotions into professional judgments of things like this. I demand objectivity of myself instead and allowing ones "opinion" to create a cause celebre gets my wrath. Some will claim I have a personal infamous history on that point, but I have no regrets and would do it again if put in that position. No one is above the industry and to defend that makes you DEAD WRONG IN MY OPINION. ONE JUDGE skewed the entire outcome of our biggest fest. One judge. Regardless of how you rationalize you're still wrong IN MY OPINION Michael. Judges have to be like baseball umpires. Their best efforts are when the fans don't remember them. The "show" is about the players and not the umpires. Itsca shame some people miss that analogy.
     
  11. I said it before and I'll say it again. If you have a 93,94, and an 84. RED FLAG IT. It is then up to the comp. chair to get the judges in order. I don't want to hurt anyone, butt what happened here was wrong. If it were handled right in the first place, he would become a better judge as well.
     
  12. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    This is 2015. Raise entries 10 bucks and get all the judges a tablet where they can access reference pics of any animal in the world. Make them judge based on live specimens not opinion. Then have them share reference during critiques. If there is 1 score 10+ points lower than the other 2 they best be able to defend that score with reference.
     
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  14. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    George, Ashley is not a good friend of mine but I have spoken to him numerous occasions. I consider him a nice acquaintance. I have always remembered him as a professional. I have no points or benefits to gain by defending him, yet I will.

    This is not a world of robots, everybody is wired differently, we are all human. As that may be, we all see taxidermy and what we consider a work of accomplishment differently.

    I have several reasons I do not compete, one of the biggest is that I was told 10 years ago that 'you will not be successful unless you compete' Another, Time.... I'd rather go to the whitehouse at the coast to barbecue and fish or landscape my yard than stay in the shop. Another honestly is that your score is an OPINION. When you enter a contest based on opinion you better be ready to accept it. Yes there is a score sheet..... how do you rationalize that score sheet? You can put 10 people in the same room with the same IQ and 10 different backgrounds and ask them to write a solution to a problem. Chances are you will get 10 different scenarios.

    There is not a formal school of training, a proper class or any type of true, professional orientation into becoming a judge in this industry........ and it damn sure isn't about the money.

    People put their reputations on the line to do a job I honestly wouldn't want and what happens in return? They get tore down by the very people who wanted their opinion.

    I've never seen this judge as a drunk or a pompous ass which would throw up a red flag. I do see a man who's 'opinion' differed from others and now is being classified as a renegade or rogue..... but yet he has faced the same delima I'm sure in his competition career.

    Next time maybe the competitors can vote on who their judges are so they can find another topic of disagreement :)
     
  15. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    Well said Michael.
     
  16. When an opinion is as different and consistant as his was, there is a problem. This was not handled right from the beginning. Call it rogue or out of sync, or what ever you want but it was handled wrong. The chair person should have taken the initiative to get it straightened out before it went to print, so to speak. Judges need to communicate during and after the process to make sure they are ALL ON THE SAME PAGE! It was not my intention to disrespect him in no way. Just saying the system failed not necessarily him.
     
  17. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Michael, you and Tony just can't seem to grasp what I'm saying. It has nothing to do with Ashley Barret PERSONALLY. It is PROFESSIONAL integrity that's on point. Whatever his PERSONAL attributes are (and I could care less about), he injected them into a PROFESSIONAL setting. Everybody can't be Michael Schlabach, or Tony Finazzo, or George Roof ( I can imagine the "Thank God's on that one.) Remember those "standards" the competition guys like to parade out when they talk about judging? Well it should be pretty obvious that Ashley has a different set than many others. That's fine as long as you resist force feeding it to others. I don't want to hear the word "reputation" inflected in this discussion. A reputation is self-induced and if you get one that's tainted, the person responsible is the guy in the mirror, not the people who were subjected to it is responsible. There's also the RUMOR that a critique to a renowned champion was that he needed to "go back to basics". (That's neither been confirmed nor denied but it's that damned "reputation" at work again.) I have heard directly from several competitors and a judge. Their comments didn't embellish his "reputation" either. If true, try explaining how professional such a snide remark is when used in a crituque to another seasoned professional.

    Do you guys remember when Reagan and the Contras were news? Remember the T-shirts? "No one is above the law"? Same goes here. When you guys can separate the personal from the professional, perhaps you'll see how ONE PERSON is responsible for this brouhaha. If it were only ONE COMPETITOR who complained, you'd be quick to question that competitor's reputation. Why the change of heart when it's one judge who initiated this debate?
     
  18. Trashfish

    Trashfish It's not easy being me!!

    18 pages and Tony has said it best. Its a damn Taxidermy show, your not saving someones life!

    No judge should have to go throught this abuse. When qualified people are hired to do a job, and that's what it is. You get their opinion. That's what was asked for. We won't always agree with their opinion, but that's what you get. The judge in this case is very accomplished and his integrity is much more important than the lack of respect that has been displayed in this post. Get over it and do better next time.
     
  19. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

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    I certainly don't want to drag this out but the bulk of this post is concentrated on a skew in the judging arena targeting, it seems, one judge. I don't believe there should be such a measurable point spread variance as posted by some, BUT every competitor in that respective division IS exposed to the SAME judging temperament if I understand that correctly, which, in essence, IS fair and consistent...........
     
  20. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    A couple of expectations ......

    What Brian said ....... A few things I expect when competing.

    * Fair
    * CONSISTENT

    This way I know what to expect.

    Competitors need to stick to their guns and mount what they think is right.

    Judges need to stick to their guns and be fair and consistent.

    At almost every competition there is a judge's meeting where guidance is given. Some want the judges to be on the same sheet of music ...... to come to a conclusion that is close. Others are done independently. What is appealing to one may not be to other.

    At state shows most competitors only have one judge's opinion. There isn't a spread.

    Point spreads are going to happen. One judge can find the exact same mistakes as another judge on a particular mount and value those mistakes differently.

    There isn't anything to be fixed here. If one wants the point spread to be within 10 pts, then others will complain that it should be within 8pts ..... then others will complain that it should be within 6 pts, while others will complain that it should be within 4 pts.

    I think the freedom should be there to assign points as the judge sees fit. You can still be a "tough" judge ....... just be FAIR and CONSISTENT.

    :)

    Kerby...