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world taxidermy championships.

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by joker, May 13, 2015.

  1. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    Consistent.......

    I have no issue with point spead so long as a judge is consistent in deductions from mount to mount.

    But how is the evaluation of what constitutes a score of 90 (to qualify a mount as a world title challenger) consistent when all the categories are NOT judged by the same judges?

    Even the most consistent judgement from category to category is undermined by the current set up. Giving the awards to BOC is a more consistent model.
     
  2. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    The awards do go to BOC for the most part. Even State Shows don't give BOC to second place mounts. I have judged with Ashley. I found him to be Professional and thourough in his judging. If he is tough so be it. I saw no-one say he was biased, played favorites or overlooked some mounts errors and hammered others. He earned his thankless job of judging at the World Show and it's time to take a deep breath and let it go people.
     

  3. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    I don't know Ashley, and have already said the lowest scoring judge may have provided the best judgment. In this instance, I don't have an opinion on the outcome, as I didn't judge the mounts and review the scores with the judges.

    All of that doesn't change the fact that consistency isn't effectively built into the current set up and maybe someone should take a look at that. That's the red pill. Sure, it is easier to take the blue.

    Best, Scott
     
  4. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    Call me crazy, stupid, whatever else. The people who came to compete at the highest level this day, which I'm sure most won Breakthough awards at a state show. The highest scoring mount at the masters level is the world champ THAT day. They entered, competed, and were the highest scorers. I'm sure there are artists out there who don't compete that would smoke the highest scores but they didn't enter so we will never know. I still say if you put some of the 2013 world winning mounts in the next world show they wouldn't win again, they were still the best in the world in 2013, just like some were the best in the world this year.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan One Year Old Already!

    I haven't been on here in a long time, so I just had to read 18 pages of good points, poor points, and points that absolutely made no sense at all in regards to competition judging. And, after all that I get to page 17 to find that the main issue of this whole affair is Ashley Barrett! I could have named a dozen mammal judges that may have caused such commotion, and he certainly would not have been on that list. As I was not there, and certainly do not KNOW what happened, this is just my personal observation and opinion: Ashley Barrett is one of the most humble, talented and professional individuals in an industry that is, at times, very lacking for those qualities.

    I've had pieces judged by him and taken my lumps. But, in the end, his assessment has always been fair, accurate, and well presented. I've also sat by, year after year and watched him win countless awards, always accepting them with the utmost humility. So, I really, truly find it hard to believe that he is being accurately represented in this discussion.

    So, say what you want about my OPINION. That's really all it is, regardless of how accurate I may be.
     
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Dan, that's why I refused to use his name before it was thrown out there. It's a systematic issue throughout this industry. I call it the bootcamp mentality. Every guy who went through basic training will tell you that the regimen he endured was the toughest anyone could take. Many of the guys who'll herald anything a judge does at a show has yet to feel the wrath of that individual. Neither do I buy off on that "thankless job" mentality. I'm sure Larry compensates the judges quite well for their efforts, so it's not like these are Good Samaritans out there working gratis. Information I got today may yet prove that the real issue wasn't the single judge, but the cooperative efforts (or lack thereof) of other judges. It's still something people should stop insisting that we "let it die". Our industry is filled with all types of people and blowing roses up people's asses never gets problems corrected. THAT is what makes discussions die off. Take a look at the old NTA and tell me just how good it was to overlook issues and let them die off.
     
  7. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    George, your disdain for any judges even preceeds this post. Are you against Blowing smoke up peoples Arces or against tough Judges? Ask any World Show Judge and I believe you will get the same answer. The stipend they recieve barely covers expenses. If you don't think it's a thankless job, try it sometime. How you can compare judging at the Worlds to the corruption that was the old NTA is beyond My thinking.
     
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tony why would you confuse my comments? They are pretty straight forward and have nothing to do with the implications you made. Where is my disdain for judges coming from? It's a simple job that individuals are paid to do(just like my umpire comment). However they are employees if an event and their actions should be orchestrated to the players design so that his/her product is always embellished. To say I have disdain for the job to be done is silly. The fact that there was a World Championship and no one won is a puzzling conundrum to any objective mind. One person claims they are judged to a standard that no one can define while another claims it was a judge's objective opinion. Last time I studied English, both of those claims would seem implausible.

    Secondly, nowhere in my comments did I EVER compare WTC judging with the corruption of the NTA. What I SAID was that the systemic problem in TAXIDERMY is that we simply don't challenge perceived inequities and if you dare, you risk being ostracized by others. Many skeletons would never be found in closets had someone had had the balls to question a practice befire it became a problem. If that makes me a villain, I've been called worse. As far as the salary, we both know that taxidermy has never been about money. Congressmen make the same claims about their salaries, but few ever just quit. If you didn't judge the show, you'd be there anyway and I assure you, it costs everyone else a helluva lot more than it costs judges.
     
  9. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    My comments were not to call you a villan. In fact I feel for the people in categories that have no Champion. I was once in the same boat. highest scoring piece, Average 89 with two nineties. ,but I took what I got and to be honest, I didn't think it would ever happen for Me , and than it did. When I look at the past piece that didn't win, I really don't believe it deserved to win. That is just Me. What I am saying is nothing we say now can change the past. Why tear someone down to try and prove a point.
     
  10. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Thank you Tony. I knew about your situation years ago and I refused to use your name in what I always felt was a dirty deed. You are indeed a righteous man whom I've always respected for how you handled that.
     
  11. Not trying to tear anyone down. When you have a problem as we did this year, IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!! If not it will just continue.
     
  12. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    It seems the same conversation occurred back in 2007 http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,38216.0.html so things have not changed since then so I doubt Larry will change anything for the future except having different judges next time. I guess when we enter it is best to really research the judges to see what they like and hope like hell that Larry does not change them last minute.
     
  13. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    There was a part in the 2007 posts about the NTA awarding National and North American Champions. There have been times where one or the other was not awarded in different categories.
     
  14. amigo

    amigo No habla Espanol

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    Hard to believe this is still going on. Listen to Lowell and good things will happen for ya'll. At the WTC level with the higher level of work it really is about the artistry. Today's competitor is tomorrows judge and as so I hope those you judge remain professional.