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world taxidermy championships.

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by joker, May 13, 2015.

  1. Scott I'm sorry I didn't mean to run off the subject from WTC to state shows. I agree, what I was saying don't apply here. But the things I was saying about getting a soccer trophy and giving all the trophies out regardless of true quality was just rehashing a subject George and I have talked about before. And I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that and that's ok. Right George ;) lol.

    And again the world pieces in question were great and what I said don't apply in this situation. I absolutely agree there are a ton of taxidermists that do EXCELLENT work for their customers and may never get or even go after a world title or compete at all. But for some small businesses those accalades are a big part of their advertising tools to bring in new customers. They are very proud of competing, learning more, and trying to better themselves as an artist to make their customer work better quality. The customers they already have know the quality of work they're getting and maybe aren't concerned with them.

    I can see why some people were upset w/ their scores though.

    Oh well Scott sorry again for ranting off topic or mixing and confusing the subject. :-\
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    This is simply a discussion and and all points are brought up as food for thought. That's all. I can assure you the powers that be are watching but not necessarily taking notes. Original forms, Well done open mouths, and properly casted parts, were once considered "tie breakers" but there was a push to allow judges to ignore those things if they saw fit. Obviously judges are in place for a reason but a bit of a format sure doesn't hurt. People can say what they want about the shows but to me the World Show will always be top. Larry and Kathy will always strive their very hardest to keep that a reality.
     

  3. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    I agree that this is no more than a discussion on a forum, and that the points are food for thought. Also, I don't associate either of you with egotism, in fact I believe your vision is the result of quite the opposite perspective, a humble wish to achieve something for yourselves. I respect the WTC and what it is and the achievement, it's just I disagree with the administration of the "world champion" title under current rules and regulations.

    I know the WTC has implications in the industry that reach beyond the borders of the show, which is just another reason to get it right. Many exceptional taxidermists hold my perspective to the contrary, as seen in this thread, but maybe some agree too. I love the show, but, with regard to the reality of it staying tops, I see a place where there could be improvement.

    Best, Scott
     
  4. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    I really hope this doesn't discourage people from competing at the next world show. It seems everyone knows who is in that small group that are "worthy" of winning a world title. Lots of serious talent out there that doesn't sculpt forms or make themselves known to the masses..
     
  5. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    Let's just take the best in world wt for the last 2 shows. I have shown them to all my customers and friends. None liked the actual look of the mounts, but there is no denying the technical aspect and time it took to construct them. So does it take some radical look to win? I guess so. I feel bad for Chip, a nice NATURAL looking deer that scored all 90s and didn't win squat.

    Maybe to win these days it has to look like your deer was just hit with a cattle prod
     
  6. Let's get something straight, The world Taxidermy Championships is the greatest show we as Taxidermist have. All that needs to happen is any time you have two scores that are in the 90's and one drops off say 6 or more points, it should be RED FLAGGED and brought to the Competition chairs attention. He/she should then get with the three judges and discuss it. I am confident the Larry and Kathy will put in place safe guards for the next show to make it better and no repeat. For this year all we can do is learn and move on. I for one have already started on my entry for 2017. I can't wait. In at least one case two judges gave higher scores to a piece than they did to the one that won. How this piece didn't place at all puzzles me. A lot of hard work and money goes into each entry and they deserve protection from one rouge judge!
     
  7. The wt deer were judged more than fair. The best pieces won. Yes it may help to take some chances but if done wrong its not going to score well and if done right you will get credit for it. My half mount scored 90,90,87 and if I judged it I would have probably given it an 85 so no complaints here.
     
  8. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    Fix the judging like Kurt said. Get rid of commercial forms, you are supposed to be masters, you should be able to make your own form. To let judges ignore open mouths is just stupid. Sorry there is no other way to say it. Its like one figure skater landing a quad but the judge says well the other skater had a pretty outfit and he sure did sew those flowers on nicely and scores him higher.
     
  9. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    Being a great taxidermist doesn't automatically make you a great judge. In fact it could make for just the opposite. Consider the guy who's talent level is unmatched by any others. Yes, those types do exist. That person may become so critical that their objectivity may become lost when judging others work. The safeguards for this are as joker mentioned. When an arbitrary point spread comes into play, that needs to be brought to the attention of the competition chairman whose job it is to figure out the answer for the spread. Could be the guy who scored it the least is right. Could be the opposite. Anything over a 4 pt spread should be looked in to.

    In most rule definitions, you will find that the alive animal is the standard by which judges are to judge against. One starts at 100 and works down. Is that a flawed concept when every animal has different unique aspects signatory to only that animal? Perhaps.

    Then you get into the debate as was done here about the flaps in an otters nose. How many know that an otter has flaps? I didn't until this thread was discussed with others who know. Again, judges knowledge may not be as superior as that of the competitors. Competitors may very well have the edge on a judge.

    I agree that something has been lost when masters level entries are allowed to use commercial parts. Should not be allowed. IMO it has weakened the level of competition and should be judged as such.

    And then, should awards be given for the top entries? Since the standard is debatable, the competition should not be. The WTC competition is only held every two years in the USA. For two years competitors dream, envision, prepare, anticipate, strive, to outshine the competition. By all means the best entry, regardless of an arbitrary score card, should be awarded for such an achievement. To withhold that achievement is not only detrimental to the spirit of competition, I also find it abusive in nature. The title was earned, even if the award was not bestowed.

    Just my .02 cents.
     
  10. How does a judge ignore open mouth deer when they have a separate category for open mouth deer? It is also in the rules that all visual artificial parts are to be made by the competitor in the masters devisions.
     
  11. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Michelle, the very LAST thing I'd support is the soccer trophy mentality, but let's be realistic. The word piece you'll find in the WTC "Masters" is not going to be from the clumsy kid who can't tie his shoes. I would never support a bad piece winning anything but I know about World Champions who won because judges decided it was "their time". That's worse than the soccer trophy. And because I honestly believe the WTC is the very best thing going in this industry is exactly why I think it's so important to HAVE a World Champion in every category. Whitetail guys are going to have to accept that category has been beaten to death. Scott Brewer's piece years ago remains as good or better than most since. It's the fuzzy little critters today. I fail to understand how ANY person can be thought of as a "master" buy using a commercial form. Altering one is just as bad and needs to be excluded. This truly is "the best of the best" and imitators need to be separated.

    I've told hundreds of people that the sole reason I love it is because I get the rare opportunity to see , at hand, the wonders of Nature's creation. The thing that I enjoy the least is having to deal with the general public as a whole. It's the "good guys" who make your day fulfilling. The exact same thing can be said about taxidermy judges.
     
  12. ortegageno

    ortegageno Active Member

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    When was the last time a World Champion has taken a stock form, mounted it up and won. I dought that anyone has won on that level without some sort of modification to the form. I find it crazy that folks want to remove all commercial forms from comp. Hell if that happens by the time I get a chance to go I better start right now on making my own form, nose, eyes, clay, glue, and tann my own skins.
     
  13. In the masters level one should make your own form. Not because it is in the rules, because you are in the masters. When a competitor makes it all, they should be given a much higher consideration by the judge. Making the form, jaw set, ears, nose etc.. is a monumental task in it's self and doing it well takes a lot of knolledge. We are talking about the MASTERS AT THE WORLD SHOW. The point of this whole thread is that they MUST put in safe guards to protect the integrity of this show from one rouge judge. At this level it is common knowledge that as points approach the 90's the distance between them becomes much further. When you see scores like 92,92,84, that is just plain asinine. There are many examples of this and worse at this years show.
     
  14. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    This year. Sure looks that way in game heads. If I am wrong I apologize. Looks like front part of form DBLS-154L from Head Quarters. Again if I am wrong and He sculpted it I sincerely apologize.
    Commercial forms should not be in masters level at the world show. They should be allowed in professional.
     
  15. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what it was with some anatomy alteration. No apologies here , it was my first time to attend the world show, I studied the rules and entered a mount in accordance with the rules. I even corresponded with the competition chairman to make sure I did everything within the rule set.

    in fact everything on that piece was created by someone else

    Sheep - created by god

    Cape - wet tanned by Tim Stewart

    form - Dawayne Dewey ( amazing artist)

    Screws - Screw company

    Glue - Sherwin Williams

    Eyes - Tohickon Eye company( I'm pretty sure they buy the glass so they don't make them from scratch)

    Critter Clay - Aves Studio

    Thread - Spider wire company

    Rocks - Dale Manning Habitat Rock ( great product)

    Dirt , grass, small gravel - God

    Habitat glue - Home depot

    Steel Tubing , welding rods , needles - steel mill

    casters - Home Depot

    Plywood - trees form God

    Paint - Lifetone paint co.

    gloss - Home Depot

    Epoxy sculpt - Aves Studio

    foam for habitat - great stuff

    Wire mesh for habitat - Home depot stucco wire

    Reference photos - Internet and videos I took of the sheep while I skinned it. you could say I created the reference video and measurements I took, but I didn't make the camera that took them or the pencil I wrote them down with.

    Mod Podge - Hobby lobby

    Bondo - Auto paint store

    Mache - glue, filler all bought from home depot and sherwin williams and garden center

    Tools - including hand tools, welder, drills , compressor, airbrushes etc.... were all made by someone else.



    So I guess you might say , all I did was assemble all the parts but there's even a problem with that because every technique I used , I learned from someone else through tutoring, seminars and critiques over 28 yrs .











    That being said I would welcome the challenge of being required to sculpt your own form for the masters division. I think that would be great fun! In fact I already have plans of doing that very thing in the Master of Masters the next go around.
     
  16. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Best post yet! ^^^^^^
     
  17. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    Yes Jerry you did follow the rules.
    And since you mounted the sheep a while ago, I am sure you did not know who the judges would be.
    Again eliminating commercial forms from masters would stop any perceived or real bias by the judges and it will sure expand the knowledge of competitors. Making your own form forces you to get to know anatomy.
    Oh you forgot to mention on your list that you were made by God.......lol
     
  18. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    DAGGUMIT! Can't I get credit for anything? I paid the entry fee that should count for something ;D
     
  19. KDPSR

    KDPSR New Member

    To me what makes a "Master" level mount is the total presentation. The base, habitat, pose, finish, overall theme etc... and of course correct anatomy. Whether or not the form was purchased or not is irrelevant. As a beginner I could not replicate that deer if I was a Master sculptor, which I am not.
     
  20. Doug Motgomery

    Doug Motgomery Active Member

    You guys crack me up, there is a big difference in making you own mannequin...... A tweety bird mannequin and making a Leopard mannequin is a big difference...But if who ever makes them rules, Well Over half the big game guys will not compete. I have carved my own bird and fish body's but I don't think I have the money are the talent to do a Elephant lol.... Nice post Jerry.......