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Allowed or not ?

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by buckfever*, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Send it back out the door

    66.3%
  2. Allow it to stay as is

    25.8%
  3. Allow it stay with a covered barrier around it with a warning posted

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Allowed as is with a warning posted at the entrance

    3.4%
  5. Remove the christian items from the piece

    4.5%
  1. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    I had never heard of Chrysalis or The Death and Burial of Cock Robin. Thank you for posting this information John.

    I have ran into a brick wall in my attempts to argue against the divisive effects of religion on this thread. Everyone seems to come to the "defense" of God when it is just me criticizing him. I wonder if any of the believers who have stood up in defense of religion will have any ill words to speak about Akeley's sculpture. Are you in favor of its censorship? If not then why?

    Its too bad the religious are still claiming a right to censor due to them being offended, just like they have done since they found the power to do so in the first place. You would think they would have grown out of it by now. But I guess when your beliefs are so fragile in the first place, you have to constantly reiterate them for fear of their collapse.
     
  2. JJ , none of that has any thing to do with the question asked. You provided us with just another taxidermy history lesson. Interesting yes.
     

  3. John Janelli

    John Janelli New Member

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    Just another taxidermy history lesson? History is repeating itself whenever we feel censorship plays a larger role in America than it already has. Akeley's Chrysalis was the 'crucified mount' of its day in my opinion.
    W.A.T., you make some very, very interesting points. I don't think God needs anyone to defend him. Sometimes we need to criticize God because I know I did when so many of my friends in New York City never made it back home on September 11, 2001. Caught myself doing the same thing when I saw the lifeless human bodies on TV during the aftermath of Katrina as many more of my friends had to live through it.
    Initially upon seeing the 'crucified mount' in question, the first things that came to my mind was - Gee, is that how I must look in God's eyes? Imperfect, sacrilegious, unholy and irreverent? Because in reality, I know I'm guilty of everything that this entry was being condemned for now. After all, who isn't?
    This is a heavy duty topic for sure. It's emotionally charged and spiritually sensitive at the same time. Maybe we as an industry are not ready for all that goes with rogue taxidermy or those who practice it. One thing is for certain no matter what anyone believes, it's here to stay.
     
  4. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    That sculpture doesn't bother me. Why would it. I don't believe one organism can evolve into a different organism, however, I do understand many do believe it. That's their belief and I won't force my beliefs on them. It's offensive to the Creator and to worshippers of that Creator. So what? It's no worse or better than a Confederate flag on display, the ten commandments on display or the Venus Di Milo.
     
  5. tem

    tem Well-Known Member

    and both of those got taken down. because they offended some body. and the only thing ridicules on here is an atheist shoving there opinion on us. but wont take ares. HIPACRIT.
     
  6. Keith

    Keith Well-Known Member

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    Attached Files:

  7. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

    22,228
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    Here! Here!
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

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    Alabama
    Here is what is so sad about being an atheist; If you are right............you will never know!!
     
  9. Aint you just a fortune cookie writer. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
     
  10. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    You "don't believe one organism can evolve into a different organism"? I guess its a good thing that it doesn't require faith, unlike religion. You are either convinced by the mounds of evidence in support of evolution, or your not. The problem I think a lot of people have is they start from the presupposition that "God did it" and if the evidence doesn't fit that starting point then it is disregarded. Or of course you could lack an understanding. Then, while closing your eyes to the evidence, you claim to know what actually happened. How humble... The funny thing is that you think it more plausible that an infinitely more complex God created the "organisms", than the natural processes that we have come to understand.

    You won't force your beliefs on them? That's probably a good idea, seeing how the person who accepts evolution actually has the evidence to justify it and you, sadly, don't... Do you think you could "force your beliefs on them"? Would you if you could?

    What is offensive to the creator and worshippers of that creator? The Chrysalis? Good... Maybe it encouraged some of them to stop and think. Maybe it made some of them question why they hold the divisive beliefs they hold. Maybe, after seeing the backlash from the fundamentalists, they realized it wasn't very Christian of them. Maybe they wondered why Christians got so offended, I mean what are they afraid of? Why do they feel the need to censor these types of things?
    By the way, how do you know what offends the "creator"? Did he tell you he was offended? Are you another one of those people with a direct line to God? If so, do you abuse it like EA by only using it for selfish reasons?

    "It's no worse or better than a Confederate flag on display, the ten commandments on display or the Venus Di Milo."
    Lets see how it is different than the:

    Confederate flag... For one, it is a piece of art. Two, it does not symbolize anything close to what the confederate flag does such as racism, treason or division. I have to ask... Do you want that ridiculous piece of treasonous, racist and divisive cloth flying on government land? If you ask me I think it is about time that it is removed and its a shame that so many people had to die in order for it to happen.

    Ten Commandments... Well first off, one symbolizes evolution, which is based on facts, while the other is based on superstition. If we are talking about the ten commandments on state grounds then it is very easy to see the difference. Which is, one is religious and therefore does not belong on any government land, whereas the other has no religious overtones at all.

    Venus De Milo... I don't know that these two pieces could be compared, although I like them both. One thing for sure is different, besides the timeline, and that is the cultures in which they were created. I would suppose that the ancient Greeks, if they had discovered evolution by natural selection, would have been creating pieces to symbolize it. Do you think the Venus De Milo is somehow provocative? You know this type of art was common in ancient times right? This was before the taboo that Monotheism imposed on humanity in regards to the display of the human form.

    Like I said above, the ten commandments do not belong on government land. It is unconstitutional for the government to endorse one religion over another. You know, the constitution, that thing you point to when you are in fear of loosing your guns. This had nothing to do with someone taking offense. Even if it did, it doesn't change the fact that it should have never been put up in the first place.

    Why do you feel the need to defend the confederate flag? Are you ignorant of the history of it and what it symbolizes today? It is a treasonous banner at best and a divisive racist tool at worst.

    Your "opinion" fails at every turn... That is why I don't adopt it. It is not hypocritical to show the folly of your arguments. Quit trying to play the victim.

    With the countless Gods throughout the ages, every believer should expect to go to Hell, based solely on probability.

    Have you ever thought that you might be wrong? I suspect not... But lets suppose, with the thousands of gods known to humanity and the thousands of others in antiquity, that you found the right one. Lucky you. There are thousands of sects just in Christianity alone. But again, lets suppose you found the right one. Wow you really are lucky to find the correct Sect of the correct Religion that follows the correct Deity when you had such a plethora of them to choose from. I congratulate you sir for finding the right one and not being at all worried that you might have got it wrong.

    But lets suppose your right for a moment, and one of your family members whom you love worships a different God, or no God at all. Would you revel in their eternal torment in Hell while you basked in the glory of Heaven? Would you be ok with this family members eternal torture due to their not believing in the same God you did? Do you see a problem with this divisive way of thinking? It can tear even close knit families apart based on nothing more than superstition.

    Lets suppose again your right and you have a family member who believes differently than you. Lets say they die before you. You are left to think about whether or not they will go to heaven even though they didn't believe in the same God. The Bible says there is only one way to get to Heaven and if they didn't follow that way then you are left to believe they went to Hell. Would you find a way to rationalize them going to heaven? Would you be ok with them going to hell? Do you think one of your loved ones deserves to be punished for eternity for the crime of not being convinced of the same God as you? Who would want this to be true?

    It has everything to do with the question asked. It is the same question just earlier in history, and by a person relevant to this industry, Akeley. This is an example of you disregarding the things that don't coincide with your ideas. I wonder what would have happened in the course of this thread if you would have used the Chrysalis by Akeley in place of the crucified lamb. Do you think there would have been the same fervor to censor a piece from one of the icons of the industry due to your religion being offended? I highly doubt it...
     
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

    22,228
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    Alabama
    Well....at least I'll be with BuckFever!! :-\
     
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

    22,228
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    Alabama
    I'm not very educated, and I don't know much about the bible. Yeah...I've read it a few times that's about it! But you seem to have read it a lot so could you tell me ....with out going to "church teaching"....or "traditional beliefs" exactly what the "bible" says about the dead, and this "eternal burning" and heaven stuff?
     
  13. Ron oh boy, you would be better off asking for help in trackhoe operations. Lords knows you need it.
    I have no dought walks can help you. So far he has shown to be an expert in ever field. Religion,history, political, taxidermy,science,physics,psychiatrist,rebuttle expert,archaeologically, human behaviors,simple mechanical problems and operations should be a snap. When you're done will you send him to my house I'm having a problem with the sewege, I know he can fix that.
     
  14. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

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    Since we are both going to hell together anyway..........I'll come help you with it! Might as well start the digging now!! Save some travel time!!!!!

    Oh........and Buckfever backwards spells...SATAN! Try it and see! Coincidence......I think not!
     
  15. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    Since you disregarded my questions, I am going to continue under the assumption that you are a Christian, seeing how that's the only religion that has reared its ugly divisive head so far on this thread.

    I like how people attempt to, on the one hand, believe in the God of the Bible, and on the other, say they don't know much about the Bible. This is funny because you are attempting to claim ignorance as an excuse to continue to hold your beliefs... At least you admit it, although I fear only patronizingly. I assume you have your reasons for holding your beliefs you are just reluctant to share them for fear of their criticism...

    I never could understand how someone could remain so convinced of Gods existence while not having read, much less comprehended, his supposed "Word". Am I wrong in assuming that a Christian should study the Bible and defend their faith, like Paul supposedly wrote in 1 Peter 3:15?

    What do you mean by "church teaching" and "traditional beliefs"? I only ask because, like I said in my reply, that you quoted instead of answering, there are thousands of different churches and traditions. So, can you tell me why yours is right and the others are wrong? Or are you going to ignore the questions again and continue to childishly patronize me?

    I'll answer your questions about Hell and Heaven after you have answered mine. All I can do is quote the Bible in regards to your question since I haven't been able to establish a direct line to the almighty in order for him to inform me on how to decipher his "Word". Like I suppose you have... Please, interpret away, and let me know why your interpretation is correct and the Christian next door to you is wrong while your at it...
     
  16. walks you really in truly do not know when your being *ucked with do you. He wasn't serious at all with his question , And could care less what you answer would be. Entertaining him self by getting you to post , and post you did.


    Now watch him re-bait the hook.
     
  17. tem

    tem Well-Known Member

    so WAT. you do believe in the reserection. your name says you do. walking after your dead. your so full of your self. does the mirror break every time you look in it. cant remember the mans name. saw him on TV a wile ago. he was an atheist scientist. always trying to prove there was no god. he said every time he tried to prove it. him and his team would prove there was a god. he said they were better off keeping there mouth shut. good advice to you. and if your going to pick a flag to say its racist. then every thing down south is a symbol of slavery. and the separation of church and state was to protect the church from the state.not the other way around. you see how you atheist turn every thing up side down. how come you never quote the mercy and goodness of god. how he wants all man kind to be with him in his kingdom. all your doing is trying to show what a bad god we serve. why don't you read the whole bible in stead of parts that tickles your fancy.
     
  18. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

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    Well then I apologize for not answering your questions. I assumed they were more general statement, than a direct question to me....so here ya go:

    First...much of what you said does not apply to me as I don't know if I am right, or if I am worshiping the creator the "right" way, nor do I condemn anyone else for the way they do, or don't do it! If someone like me should ever find favor in the creator's eyes, then everybody else is a shoe-in!! I do not consider myself a teacher, or an interpreter of the bible......I just direct people to it so they can read it for themselves! I much prefer the "Question with boldness" approach over "blind following" anyway!

    As far as "religion" being divisive and tearing apart families and peoples, and nations.........you are totally correct! As was foretold by the very founder of the Christian faith. You ask "what do you mean by "church teaching" here is an example. Traditional and church teaching tell us the Messiah came to bring peace! Scriptural teaching tells us he came to bring war, and yes....even destroy families! "Think not that I came to bring peace....but war, and set father against son, and daughter against mother".....and so on! His words...not mine...or those of ANY church! Now....is not this the very thing you described! You have to admit...he nailed that one!

    Another example to help you understand what I mean by church or traditional teachings would be Noah and the Ark! Traditional teaching in every story book and every Sunday school in the world says the animals came "two by two". Scriptural teaching tells us that is only part of the story....there were actually many more! READ IT! So that is what I am talking about there! Hope that clears that up!



    You asked if I thought my loved ones deserved to be punished for eternity for not believing in the Creator the same way as I do. No....they have been punished enough by having to live with me! But nor do I personally believe that! It is written that even those in Sodom and Gomorrah will have a "tolerable judgment"! If the God of "scripture" is true to his word....all judgment will be just and merciful! We needn't worry....it will be perfect and just!

    There....I hope I answered your questions! And I hope I have not been patronizing, smart ass, sarcastic belittling, or insulting of YOUR beliefs! Which....and I am being honest here......is exactly how you sound towards mine! Reread your own words...and if you disagree then let me know!
     
  19. Ron B

    Ron B Life Sucks.....Then comes the death roll!!!!

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    Buck....you are such a...."Devil" ::) ::) ::) ::)
     
  20. Now you have gone and done it . You got serious with Einstein ::) ::), this could get interesting especially if some way he manages to mention bigfoot or insults shot guns.





    Oh and yea this forked tail does get trouble some at times. :mad: :mad: :D