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Allowed or not ?

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by buckfever*, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Send it back out the door

    66.3%
  2. Allow it to stay as is

    25.8%
  3. Allow it stay with a covered barrier around it with a warning posted

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Allowed as is with a warning posted at the entrance

    3.4%
  5. Remove the christian items from the piece

    4.5%
  1. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    Now I know you don't read my posts, although you seem overly interested in me in a weird way, I mean why would you care how often or when I post? If you did read my posts you would at least be able to guess at my job, as I referred to it in one of my replies. But, like usual, you don't have anything important to lend to this discussion and are just showing your ignorance on the topic every time you post...
     
  2. tem

    tem Well-Known Member

    LOL. OK every one. lets all agree with little cry baby here. we don't want to hurt his little fillings. :'(
     

  3. Yep, He would throw a tantrum if I had the topic deleted.
     
  4. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    I'm going to omit all your preaching and address the specific points that you attempt to make in my reply...

    What you quoted is from the old testament. When Christ came, things changed as far as punishments and such although the message is the same.
    Why do Christians say "That's old testament" as though God changed his mind when Jesus was born... I might remind you that Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. -Mathew 5:17-19. So I ask you, as a Christian, how do you square this with your excuse, "When Christ came, things changed"?

    Would you rather I post divisive verses from the New Testament? Or would you have an excuse in that case too? I can find a few for you in order to keep this post as short as possible while not missing the point. This one is arguably the most divisive, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through Me.” -John 14:6. So basically if you don't believe in Christ then you can't go to heaven, this sets Christians apart from non Christians. But there are plenty more such as, "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." -Mathew 18:15-18. Or, "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 John 1:9-11.

    I hear Christian bashing everyday and in some cases I believe justifiably so, but in most cases it is ridicule for believing in a "made up god who is no more than a cartoon character" and that hurts.
    When you base your beliefs on faith you will inevitably be ridiculed by people who don't share your faith. That's the great thing about using evidence instead of faith, you can actually base your conclusions on something. If someone is to ridicule you when you are basing your beliefs on the evidence you can actually show them how they are wrong. This is contrary to faith, where they would have to take your word for it. If people didn't criticize bad ideas for fear of "hurting" the holder of the idea, then you do no credit to the holder of said belief.

    "They are basically saying that only an idiot can put all their faith and belief in something that can't be seen or scientifically proven. That is what all people do when they trust a theory of .... and it is only when that theory is proven and no longer is a theory, they are vindicated for that belief."
    Why would you use faith to decide the truth of any matter? Faith is what people use when they lack a good reason and evidence to hold a belief. This shows your lack of understanding of the word theory when it is used in the context of science. A theory is the graduation point in science. You start with an observation, form a hypothesis, test the hypothesis and eventually, if the hypothesis holds to experiment and peer reviewed scrutiny, graduates to a theory. There are many theories in science such as, the theory of gravity, germ theory, the theory of evolution and so on. If you don't think these are a "fact" as you put it then you are just wrong. These theories are "the most robust explanation of reality". And sadly none of the ideas are found in the book that was supposedly dictated by the creator of the universe. This book is lacking both on the nature of reality and the moral judgments that we established over time. It is just a fact, our holy books are antiquated in both knowledge and morality.
     
  5. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    Your saying I would throw a fit, if you threw a fit and deleted the post? That wouldn't be the first time a religious person has put their fingers in their ears and hummed "I'm not listening" when I criticize their ideas.
    You have brought nothing of any relevance to the thread you started in the first place. That is just pathetic. I wouldn't blame you for deleting it out of self preservation.
    Arguing with people like Tem and buckfever/Louisiana is like playing chess with a pigeon. Inevitably they are going to knock over all the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like they won.
     
  6. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    SO, I'm starting to get the feeling you have a problem with Christianity. Lol. There is no way to change your view point, so I will not attempt to. If you feel that the reason I say this is because I can't continue or that I am starting to think you are correct, that is not the case. It's just that I don't want to waste my time pissing in the wind, since I'm already "wasting my time believing in something that can't be proven", I'm starting to run out of time to waste.
     
  7. If you dont like playing with pigeons then STOP returning to play. Simple solution !
     
  8. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    There is a way to change my viewpoint, offer evidence of the existence of a God. Then I will have a reason to justify my belief in said God. You don't seem to think that I am open minded, but your wrong in that assumption.

    Your viewpoint is unchangeable because you ignore the fact that there is no rational justification for your belief in a God. It would change instantaneously if you actually required evidence to substantiate the claim that God exists. But the lack of such evidence is irrelevant to you when all that is needed is faith, which is the excuse you give yourself for not having the evidence in the first place.

    I don't have a problem with only Christianity, I have a problem with religion as a whole. It is inherently divisive in its dogmas which are counterproductive to a better quality of life. The quality of life measurements go up the more secular a society is.
     
  9. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    Good one, that makes perfect sense, except for one problem... If the pigeon is not challenged on its ridiculous assertions, then he continues to think he is right in spreading his filthy excrement. This excrement can be infectious to others especially when they don't receive the reasons why it is to be considered crap in the first place. That's where I come in, all I am doing is pointing out how your ideas are nonsensical and baseless in reality.

    Your making it abundantly clear to people that your arguments never held water in the first place by not being able to defend them when challenged. I know you want the last word, and I would give it to you if it is worthy, but as of yet you haven't added a worthwhile thought to this thread, and there is no reason to suspect you will in the future.
     
  10. tem

    tem Well-Known Member

    your all about self. if we don't agree with with you you have a Hesse fit. you quote the bible but don't believe it. and by the way. Jesus said. more blessed are those who don't see. yet believe. atheist always want proof. that's what they wanted Jesus to do. he told them they will see none. they didn't believe in the first place. like you.so if you got a problem with Christians. get on your knees and ask god for your answers. ill will also pray for you.
     
  11. As I have grown weary of chess playing and see my opponent is a far greater adversary . Its best you have the last word. Walks You are right. I see the error of my ways. I'm convinced and a changed person from this day forth. Thank you for putting me on the right path.. I hope you succeed with the rest of the flock.

    sincerity
    pigeon



    All please law down your arms, It is a useless to continue into an already lost battle.
    Take up up your arms in a much more deserved fight as there are bigfoot threads, Cecil the lion, Vaccines and autism , and numerous others.
     
  12. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    Aww, don't stop. Talks Again was just 'splaining there is no God because he hasn't seen it for himself.

    I've been blessed with too many miracles to call coincidence. Thats not blind faith, but ask and receive results. Thats all the evidence I need, and not something I need to parade around to convince another. I don't care if you believe or if you don't. I do feel sorry for those who haven't experienced any "evidence" of their own.

    There was a book put out years ago called Power for Living. Maybe the mormons put it out, I don't remember. It contained testimony by successful people like Jeff Gordon, Andy Pettitte, blah, blah ,blah...One recommendation was to keep a prayer log. Nothin' fancy, jot down what you pray for vs what prayers are answered. I think you will find the vast majority of prayers are answered. That was my experience anyway. Just another confirmation that things are at work that I can't understand.

    You want proof, try it for yourself. Maybe you will get your proof..OR ..Maybe he just doesn't like you either. ;) JK ! ;D Lord, I apologize to you and all the little pygmies of New Guinea.

    I believe the old saying "there are no atheists in foxholes" is true.

    Be thou comforted, little dog, Thou too in the resurrection shall have a little golden tail. ~ Martin Luther
     
  13. EA. I guess next, somebody is going to tell me Santa Clause don't exist either. That will piss me off, if I find that out. :mad: But I do wonder how he gets in my house. :-\ I don't have a chimmey. ::)
     
  14. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    I did enjoy responding to parts of this thread, although I wish I could say there was a reason to in the first place. I did expect the patronizing and veiled threats of eternal damnation to which I would ask again, why should I believe your threats are valid? Trust me when you profess that nonsense to people who don't believe it in the first place you are wasting your breath. I know you were taught to think that it scares people into belief, but in this instance it is laughable at best.

    EA, if you "ask and receive results", why don't you ask for something that can't be refutable... Pray for an amputee to regain his lost limb. Or are you too busy asking for selfish things like, "keep me and my family safe today". All the while you are praying for yourself or someone you know, some number of children die of completely preventable causes, but you don't have the time to pray for them right? Why would you deprive these children of the fruits of this awe inspiring relationship you have with the creator of the universe who has taken a liking to you and what you have to say at any given moment? Really, WHY? Why would you be so selfish and keep it all to yourself and not attempt to use this amazing ability you share with God to actually make a difference in the world at large instead of the tiny little nook that you call your own? Why not pray to cure some of the awful things that plague mankind, like cancer for instance, that this God you are praying to supposedly created in the first place. Can you actually answer these questions?

    Reasonable people require actual evidence for the beliefs they hold and a "prayer log" is not going to work if you start from the presupposition that there is a God and he answers prayers. You can justify anything as an answer to any given prayer if you set out to do just that.

    Tell me, If I had a dream that I broke my leg slipping on the ice, and I indeed did break my leg while slipping on the ice after I woke up, did I see into the future? How about all the other dreams that I had that never came true? It is the same thing with prayer. Actually, in a prayer study the people who knew they were being prayed for had a longer recovery period than the people who didn't, and the people who weren't being prayed for at all recovered at the same rate as the people that didn't know they were being prayed for. Is this evidence that prayer is actually harmful if the person knows they are being prayed for? I don't know you tell me.

    The quote "there are no atheists in foxholes" is demonstrably wrong whether you "believe" it or not. Atheists are just as quick to pick up a gun and fight for the freedoms they hold dear as Christians are. Although I don't know why you would feel the need to state this in the first place.

    The funny thing when I talk to Christians is they think I never believed in the same nonsense they do. I did, and then I read the bible and actually examined why I believed it and found, as far as the bible goes, it is immoral to its core and claims to be the one and only source of goodness at the same time. For example...
    If you were the Father of all of creation would you flood it out as portrayed in the story of Noah? All those "sinner" newborns and toddlers needed to be drowned in their cradles right? This is immoral teaching and at the same time you hold it up to be the epitome of morality because you are convinced that God is good. He gives you no reason to believe that he is good, other than him telling you he is, in the bible but you believe it because you were taught to in he first place. Indoctrination is a hard thing to escape from.

    The only relevance the bible has nowadays is to give us a glimpse into the minds of antiquity, and for us to look back in disgust and revel in how far we have come in terms of morality.

    If you applied that type of questioning to God, in place of Santa Clause, you might actually surprise yourself. But it would be a sin to question God so continue to be afraid of him and keep thinking you need saved from the Hell that he set up in the first place.

    No offense but I can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't want to actually refute the other persons position, they just want to continue to assert their own. This is boring and nothing of worth comes out of it.
    Enjoy your unsupported beliefs that make you feel good for holding them.
    I'll pray to Odin for you since he is the one true god, or was that Loki, Thor, Baal, Poseidon.................................. I'll tell you what I won't waste my time if you don't.........
     
  15. ANDY

    ANDY Well-Known Member

    1,324
    523
    Ohio
    EA seriously, you had to get him started again................
     
  16. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    You know he was dying to say something. I figured I'd throw him a bone. ;D
     
  17. tem

    tem Well-Known Member

    you pray to who ever you want to. I will still pray to the one true living god. and how do you know ea doesn't pray for other people? oh ya. an atheist knows more than god. you don't want to believe so you can continue in your sinful ways and don't half to give an account to a higher power. your your on god. and Jesus said he is the same yesterday,today,and forever. so you can drop the out of date excuse. are we having a good conversation now.
     
  18. Holy hell this is the best entertainment one could ask for on a plane ride romSan Diego to NJ. Oooops sorry I said he'll.
     
  19. uncleheff

    uncleheff New Member

    This is what a person does when they can't answer the questions put before them... I'm not dying for your answers by the way, but they would be nice to hear. I'm always interested in how people rationalize their beliefs, especially if they can do it by not resorting to faith. Although I doubt your ability to do this, I would still like to hear an attempt.

    I don't pray to any God, if that isn't obvious at this point then I don't know how to make it any clearer... So I will say it again, I don't pray to any God. I was just attempting to show you what it means to me when people say, "I'll pray for you". It means as much as if I were to say, "I'll pray to the great gypsie fairies in the tree for you".

    When people say, "I'll pray for you", they are essentially saying you are in need of their help, (whether they asked for it or not is irrelevant to your pious self) and the help they are offering is in the form of words. These words are spoken to some sort of higher power that cannot be demonstrated to exist and therefore have no relevance to helping the said person. If you actually cared about the person you are praying for you would do something measurable to help them. In this case, that would be to convince me of the truth of your religion so that I might share in the glory that you think will be bestowed upon you. But in true Christian form you don't, even though you are commanded to in -1 Peter 3:15 which reads, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:". Instead of doing as you are commanded by God you are essentially attempting to hold the higher ground as if you are in possession of some truth that has been denied to me. And in fact, if we base truth on what can be demonstrated by studying reality, it is completely the opposite.

    An atheist does know more than God, since they don't believe a God exists to know more than they do. Although I don't know how you would judge your Gods intelligence since all you have is the Bible. If you go by the Bible, even a Kindergartener is more intelligent than God because they know the earth is round...

    Although you are right in your claim that I don't want it to be the case that the God of the Bible is true, it does nothing to refute the fact that there is no evidence of the truth of it in the first place. Just because I don't want it to exist doesn't change the fact that cancer exists... Does that make it clearer where I stand? You don't seem to understand why I don't believe is not because I don't want to be punished for my "sin", its because of the lack of evidence. There is a deeper problem here though that you either accept or haven't thought about enough to discover... That is, this God set it up this way in the first place knowing full well the outcome of it. Let me see if I can make it clearer for you in an analogy... If I have a child knowing he is going to grow up to kill 10 people, then I am responsible for the death of those people because I knowingly caused it to happen by having the child in the first place.

    This is just off the top of my head so if it doesn't logically follow please point out where I made the mistake...
    God knows everything.
    God created the Universe and everything it contains.
    Therefore God is responsible for everything within said universe.
    SIN exists in said universe.
    God sends people to hell due to committing Sin.
    Therefore God created Sin in order to send people to hell.

    Does this sound like a good God to you? Does he sound worthy of worship? The God of the Bible knowingly created the things he despises in order to send people to hell, which he also created, to be eternally tormented. If he did not, then why did he create those things to begin with? Who would want this to be true? Who would want to be created sick and commanded to be well?

    So if Jesus is always the same, and he is the God that came down from heaven in human form, like the bible says, (“I and the Father are one-John 10:30) then the excuse that Christians make, "that's old testament, with Jesus came a new covenant" or "the mosaic law is no longer relevant since Jesus came" is just hogwash. Thank you for proving the point I made in the previous post using the Bible. I'm glad we can agree that the laws in the old testament still hold true. Such laws as, "If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die." -Deuteronomy 22:13-21. Or "They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses." -Numbers 15:32-36 I'm all the more glad that we don't adhere to these "laws" anymore due to these "laws of God" being utterly immoral.

    I don't think we are having a good conversation now for the simple fact that you are not providing evidence for your claims. You just simply assert them as if that is enough for anyone to believe them. Fortunately for some people it isn't, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    Lets see if you answer any of the questions I posed to you or if have any retort to the refutations I made this time, or if you continue on your path of making assertions that aren't backed up by anything other than your lacking knowledge of the bible.
     
  20. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    " how far we have come in terms of morality"... Like killing babies and selling the parts possibly on the black market, mass killings, attempted genocide's, ramped pornography, welfare leaches, enslaving people, corporate greed, governmental greed, power hungry people oppressing others, collapses of countries, water pollution, death panels, euthanasia, wars, atrocities beyond belief. Yep we've come a long way baby. Oh, wait, these same things were going on thousands of years ago much the same as they are going on today. I sure do like your idea of morality.