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(POLL)Masters division at the world show

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Jerry Huffaker, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. Ron Kelly

    Ron Kelly Active Member

    The fish replica folks have to make and mold their own fish from scratch. I say yes. I think there are judges who lean towards their own sculpted forms and products too often.
  2. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

    I like what you said Ron

    Ken, I suggested in the other thread, that for the large mammals....the competitors be allowed to use a commercial mannequin but they must alter it (substantially) and the must
    sculpt their own head.

    Competitors can usually get a skull or a reproduction of a skull to base their sculptured head on. They usually take measurements in the field when they kill their specimen even in Africa, or they can take a quick alginate cast of the muzzle or one side of the head.

    All this due to size and availability of skeletons They must also provide pictures as proof.

  3. Riverland

    Riverland New Member

    Some people actually enter stuff in the masters that is not hand selected and harvested for the purpose of competing in the world show therefore said measurements for the carcase are not available. By forcing competitors to only use hand sculpted from scratch forms will eliminate alot of competition pieces especially in large gamehesds and lifesize probably deer also. Carcasting a baby pig or a red fox is a little different than sculpting cape buffalo or a lifesize tiger or a sheep from scratch. If your your full-time job is actually a commercial taxidermist ( not to knock part timers,who can commit hundreds of hours into a piece as a hobby) vs. paid sculpters or sculpters/taxidermists it is ridiculous to think that you should have to supply a completely original form. There is already a Masters of masters division for original forms. Judges judge what they like and want to see, makes no difference who did the inside its what the finished product looks like. Run what you bring and keep the numbers of entries up .
  4. ortegageno

    ortegageno Active Member

    Like Riverland said, how many folks are gonna have access to the carcass of a LARGE Lifesize especially your African animal's. There is a huge difference in sculpting or carcass casting a squirrel than moose, lion, sheep and so on.
  5. Making them mandatory competitor sculpted/carved/carcass cast etc. would most likely decrease the number of large entries. That would be a sad loss to the show over all.

    A brief one page synopsis and a few photos showing your alterations would carry weight with the judges crew. Well....unless ya really screwed it up.... :)
  6. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

    Yes it is hard to get the carcass for LARGE MAMMALS.....that is why I said

    1. let them use a commercial mannequin....but they must alter it substantially

    2. the must sculpt their own HEAD..... from a skull, from cast of head, carving it etc.

    3. provide pictures for proof.

    Like Amy said you already have to make your own jaws and teeth and tongue.....surely it would not be a stretch to make the head it would just take some planning.

    For the wolf I did for the world show, I put the word out that I needed a wolf carcass....it took a year but I finally got one.
  7. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

    I would like to add a couple of points, as I stated in the beginning, "if I have time" I will compete by whatever rules Larry makes. Riverland has an excellent point, I am a full time taxidermist working long hours in the studio to make our living. All of my show pieces are done in the late night hours and on sunday afternoon. To add another 100 plus hours sculpting-molding etc is going to be difficult. My customers come first , competing is just for fun and recreation.

    Another point that has only been touched on is the number of entries, I personally think it would not only kill the masters division but it would do the same to the professional division because the folks who pull out of the masters because of whatever reason are not going to enter the pro.

    The next point that hasn't been mentioned is the Competitors award, this award is given specifically to increase the number of entries in the masters-show. Many of the mammal guys will bring shop mounts to have a shot at the competitors award money. I'll bet there were 20 plus shop pieces this year that were brought specifically for eligibility for this award.They are not going to custom sculpt mold etc all of those pieces.

    My last point is , to be an honest level playing field each competitor in each division would have to sculpt the same specie in the same position. As Riverland stated, how could it be the same to mold and cast a 3lbs life-size baby fox compared to a 30lbs bobcat. or a bobcat head in comparison to a bighorn sheep head and they would be in the same divisions respectively.

    I have to disagree with my old friend Ron Kelly, for molding a fish to be the same as molding a mammal you would have to hand sculpt the entire fish scales and all in clay and then mold it for it to be comparable. which is the same as molding and casting a jaw set and tongue you're not sculpting it just molding and casting the real thing.

    IMHO It's a great idea and would be a lot of fun for those wanting to try it but there are too many variables to just say that everyone needs to sculpt his own form.

    Master of Masters solves the problem but I do think it should be judged by the judges.
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    There are so many variables is spot on Jerry. I can use a commercial manikin and call it self sculpted if it's my commercial sculpture. I have done it. The next competitor uses/alters the same manikin and they cannot make the same claim. It's really, in a lot of ways, not fair. But on the other hand they might smoke me with my own manikin and win. Under the self sculpted rule they wouldn't even get the opportunity. Look, I get it completely about the self sculpted pride. It is completely how I roll, but I do it because I completely own my victories when I win, but most importantly, I own all my mistakes when I don't. It's a personal thing and it doesn't make me any better or worse than any other competitor. As long as the judges treat the matter fairly in each varying case, I think the rules should stand as they are.
  9. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

    Since the problem with large mammal competitors sculpting their own forms can not be solved;

    What do you guys think of this?

    Competitors are allowed use commercial forms but they must DISCLOSE who's form they used. They must do this upon registration.

    A simple computer program can be set up so that, the chairman/workers at the show will inform the judge who sculpted that form that HE MUST excuse himself from judging that particular mount.

    so that mount will only be judged by two judges and the score averaged.

    That way the conflict of interest is removed.

    If that particular mount is up for an award, that judge again must excuse himself from the decision.
  10. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

    Like fishing much?
  11. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    All I see here is a couple of elitist egotists pushing for exclusions of others in their "club". Casting your own fish replica??? Casting your own jawset???? PULEZE!!!! You're copying what the Creator supplied you. No more "casts" or factory eyes, no commercial paints, no professional tanning. The woodcarvers at the WTC do it already, so you elitists petition for a separate category where you have to make EVERYTHING. Then when that leaves too many competing, start creating the skin and hair as well.

    TIMBUCK Active Member

    And in addition I think to compete at the matsers level at any show, competting for majoe awards, the taxidermist should be required to tan the hide themselves and it should only be allowed to be shown, judged and critiqued ONCE. :) Sorry, I know its just another wrinkle, but thats my opinion.
  13. That scenario has a flaw as well. Let's say the one judge excuses himself for your reason stated. Sounds good so far. But one of the other judges sells the same form. He/she may never say it publicly but he thinks his competitor stuff is not up to par. ( To say it niceley .)
    I'm sure you see where I was going.

    Maybe the judges should only be biologist , veterinarians, zoologist , etc. .... No taxidermist /supplier/ sculptor at all.
  14. Whitetailart

    Whitetailart New Member

    How about we just hand all the awards out when you check in at the show. Then you can tell them what you deserve and get the award you want.
    imagine the money that can be saved because there is no need for a judges or awards banquet .

    First come first served better get there early before all the good awards are gone.

    Lets just face it, HUMANS are involved its never going to satisfy everyone. No matter how its done.
  15. Doug Motgomery

    Doug Motgomery Active Member

    Boy I believe that went over there heads George. You are 100% RIGHT. You guys crack me up. You all ready get credit and more points for making you own Manikin!!!! over the competitors that DID NOT..........What more do need,,,,,,,Like George comment, get others out of the way and make your own club that's all you are doing..

    TIMBUCK Active Member

    How come I cant vote twice??? :) I tried. But to no avail.
  17. Taxiserv

    Taxiserv James Newport

    No cheating Tim!!!
  18. Talk about trying to make a system work in your favor !" You cant compete against me unless you do it MY way " Really says a bunch about ones confidence.
  19. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    And I thought the NTA drama was entertaining. With all the politics in this small industry, the only people that should judge are experienced wildlife biologists. They know the specimens better than anyone and don't have an elitist view point. I still quote Rick Carter all the time. We all suck compared to the live animal...
  20. B.S.O'Hare

    B.S.O'Hare Member

    I think it would be a terrible idea to require all masters pieces to be made nearly entirely by the competitor. The rules are fine the way they are. If a person so desires to put that much time into it they should have the leg up, but it doesn't just end there. The judges have to consider craftsmanship, and artistic composition as well, along with a whole bunch of other things. I don't think it likely that a well done piece on a commercial mannikin will win all that often. When they do, nice job to the artist, they cheated the system or maybe they played the game better ;) Besides, they have a division where all of the pieces have to be original sculptures/carved bodies/ etc. Its called the MASTER of MASTERS!!!! Carolin if you want to compete in a division where the competitors must sculpt/carve/cast their bodies, why wouldn't you just compete there?