Epo grip shelf life

I have the same problem Den with the Epo grip FIN MAGIC one part seems to get little hard particles and dries up inside the jar,by the time I pull out the harden particles I end up with a half jar full of the product. now I have a half jar of Product A I can't use that I'll have to throw away. They should send you 1 jar of A and 2 jars of B cause by the time use get done pulling all the dried up particles out that's what you end up with.

 

Dennis, I talked to the Epo-Grip folks about this years ago and they gave me a great tip to prolong the life of their products because you are spot on with some of the issues I had. Store your jars upside down so that the product on top cannot possibly have any air in between it and the lid. Storing them this way extends their life considerably.

 

another tip from epo-grip. If you put the dried up or jelled up container uncovered in the microwave with a damp paper towel over it and heat it for 15-30 seconds, it will return to its former consistancy.

 

As you both have mentioned the microwave deal I once cooked the two parts a bit (way) too much and ended up with liquid! I tried to use it, but it set up very, very fast and was awfully hot to work with! lol!

 

Yes Ken there is indeed still air in the container. However, the air is now always at the bottom when you store them upside down. So, instead of having to peel away dried-up product off the top each time (if you don't use it often) to get to the good stuff, if anything this peel is now at the end. At least that's the theory. I honestly don't know what I'll end up with because I really don't use the stuff much in my shop and I haven't gotten to the bottom yet. My container has to be 7 or 8 years old and I still have 1/3rd of it!

 

Ken, I do need to clarify that this only works for some of the Epo Grip products that I have used. I'm talking about either their products that are fluid enough to flow back to the lid when flipped over. Or get soft enough via heating up to flow enough so that they also run towards the lid when you put them away. This way there is zero air on the (real) top when you flip it over and open the lid. All the air goes to the bottom because the fluid flows to the top of the flipped over jar and forces the air to the bottom of the jar. The product that you use from the top never sees air. If there's any hardening it will now be when you get to the last 20% of the product vs. on top all of the time. I use hot water btw to heat the jars up. Stuff like the Epo Grip putty doesn't go bad. The fin tooth - I stopped using but I believe that is fluid enough for it to work without heating. "Magic Mache" I'm not familiar with. "Fin Magic" I also stopped using because whatever I did the one part hardened up. It hardened less quickly doing the flip over method, but not very much. In fact, I'm not even sure about that because the minor difference with Fin Magic flipped or non-flipped could have been caused by temperature too. Unless you do enough fin molding I would not recommend this product either. Sorry, hopefully this clarifies things. (I DO like their putty though for seams!)

 

Ken, who's on first? lol! Sorry, the first two times explaining I was very clear (in MY head - lol!). Back to work for me - have a good one and stay warm my friend!

 

I have watched this thread unfold, and a lot of you I have personally talked to on the phone and I appreciate your responses as well as your business!. Let me hit on a couple things in no particular order.

I have a toll free number 1-800-888-2467 to discuss any and all technical questions. Every distributor knows to refer customers with questions or issue directly to me. I stand behind my product line. Anyone who takes the initiative to pick up the phone and call gets my utmost attention and direct answers. If for some reason I cannot answer your call, leave a message, I will return your call ASAP. If you are shy or it is after hours you can always contact me via email- sales@epogrip.com

As for the title of this thread "Epo Grip shelf life" we guarantee the customer 1 year. Providing the customer does not cross contaminate the material (create lumps in the material by not keeping both sides clean) and keeping your lids on tight you will exceed that 12 months without fail. Along those lines, to help get the most out of the product, currently there is not a container manufactured that does not leak. The seals in the lids can only do so much. Store a can of Acetone in the garage and you will soon find a empty can and agree. As suggested storing the "B" side upside down on the fast set products will encapsulate the air in the container bottom. This will reduce the air exchange/leaking and create a sealed atmosphere due to the encapsulated bottom. Ultimately our hope is that you will be busy enough to use up the material in a reasonable time frame, however, hiatuses do happen. I have retains that are 12+ years old that still mix and work using the care and method I just outlined.

Lumps in the material, if you are finding lumps in your material it usually means cross contamination has occurred. Kind of like making a PBJ sandwich, if you don't clean the knife you will have peanut butter in your jelly jar or jelly in your peanut butter can. Only difference is this product will cure in those spots giving hard cured lumps in your container of material that will never dissolve or mix in. You will find the "B" side will skin on the fast setting products, to preserve what is underneath if not used regularly. A lot like a latex paint, if you do not peal that away and mix it in you will too have lumps in your material. Everything under the skin is perfectly good material.

Microwaving the product will loosen/rejuvenate the material to a certain extent. If it is cold, expect the material to be thicker like molasses gets in a refrigerator. Since ALL epoxy systems are catalyzed chemical reactions heating them will accelerate the cure time. This is why we suggest after microwaving to let the material cool down to room temperature before mixing or you can expect it to kick off faster than normal. You will notice that the material cures faster in the summer than in the winter for this very reason. Also the amount of mass mixed or thickness of the application will slow down or accelerate to cure time. More mass or thicker application the faster the cure, thinner or less material the longer it will take to cure. Now if the ambient temperature in your shop gets below 55 it will take hours or days to cure depending on the particular product.

Last, as for the product line being pricey not sure what sizes are purchased, but the price per ounce, is well within the price point of other industrial grade Epoxy adhesives available. Actually if you purchase the larger size not only is shelf life better but the price per ounce is less. If it is pricey because you mix too much material for your project, mix less and if you need more mix more. Within 72 hours it will bond to itself after that you must give it a tooth.

For those who have lost or used up one side or need a side, we do sell just a "A" or a "B" side. Just give us a call.

There is FAQ section on our website www.epogrip.com which I created to serve as a reference. There is a lot of good information on our site. Please feel free to visit and reference that information any time. Feel free to email or call me with any and all questions. I am not the smartest guy, but one thing I do know is my product line not only do I personally formulate and manufacture these products but I also use them.

 

Sorry Erik, when I read my last comment in a previous post it sounds like a slam to your Fin Magic product. When, in fact I liked it. It flowed just enough and was easy to use and no air bubbles. It worked great. The problem is my very limited use of this particular product. I usually repair most of my fins on skin mounts unless they're totally gone. I'll mold a fin or two a year maybe. With Fin Magic as you mention, the one part (B) won't flow to go to the lid and create that air-tight barrier like the other part. So, it's shelf life is shorter than the other part. For me, I think I got around 2 years before part (B) started developing that skin on top. Does that sound about right Erik? Btw, folks you can still peel this hard top layer off and dig down and get some good stuff usually for quite some time beyond that initial ~two years depending on how much non-hardened material you have underneath. Never any lumps in any of your products here, but I'm very conscious of potential cross-contamination.

Oh, while I have you here Erik I might as well ask a question or two that perhaps all could benefit from the answers? (And what the heck, more free advertisement for you - lol!) Do both parts of the Epo-Tooth flow enough that the upside-down deal will work? I can't remember. I think shelf life was my perceived problem before with Epo-tooth. I can't recall though if I quit using it before I learned about the flip trick or not. What kind of shelf life do you think you can get out of the tooth stuff?

And as far as price goes, just my two cents. Generally speaking I buy the best products that work for me. Unless the prices are significantly different I don't really care too much about price. Typically we're talking an extra few cents per mount to use a better product (that you pass on the extra pennies - your cost to your customer). I also don't think it makes any sense to "save" a buck or two if the cheaper product is slowing you down. Your hourly wage is costing you a heck of a lot more than the perceived savings by using a cheaper product! Just my thoughts.

 

Yes Erik - being able to buy part B alone was something I didn't know either! Bookmarked this thread.

Ken, you do realize you just insulted YOUR intelligence with your "great minds" comment - lol! Back to work, take care!

 

Erik,

Any reason why almost every single fish I've put Fin Magic on to attach fins, and even the fins themselves yellow over time? I would say 99% of them?

 

I've almost completely stepped away from using it for anything. It is so inconsistent from one batch to another .

I am mixing evenly, and consistently, so that isn't the factor .

Some never sets, some is brittle. Some fins will stay tacky. Sometimes when using it to attach fins, or other things, it won't tack at all .

I used to really like it and used a TON of it . But I haven't at all in probably 8 months, and don't plan on using it again.

 

Marty,

You can heat the Fishtooth, the "A" side will soften up more than the "B" side.

To thin the products it is important to mix the two sides before adding Xylol/Xylene. This will keep the mix ratios proportionate. Using Xylene will extend the cure time as it has to flash off before the cure can begin. The best way to thin the product is by adding base resins. We have those available the #30 Liquid- for the slow set products and Liquid Fast Set- for the faster curing products. Just give us a call.

 

Jimmy,

To answer your first question, just like a lot of clear coats, most epoxies too are not UV stabile, a clear top coat which is UV stable will help curtail the yellowing. If you are using a top coat that is also not UV stable the whole fish will yellow over time. That is something you see very often especially with laquer clears in particular.

As for your second post, these products are made from a formula, with weights and measures, and every batch is tested before it is packaged. It does not leave here if it is not right. I have had individuals make the same claims you just did in seminars, they even went as far as bringing their molds and their material for me to use on the spot. So I took their molds and their material and produced some of the finest fins right in front of them and others. I have been personally manufacturing these products for 22 years. Do I know how to make it fail you betcha, most of the errors come from improper mix ratios or not inducting/mixing the product correctly. If those two things are done correctly one will have consistent predictable results.

Sounds to me Jimmy, that your mix ratios were the reason behind the inconsistency you were experiencing. Let me explain in more detail

Often people confuse epoxy systems and polyester systems, adding more catalyst "B" side thinking it will make the product cure faster and harder. That ONLY IS TRUE WITH POLYESTER BASED MATERIALS. In a epoxy system if you add more "B" side two things will happen, it will not accelerate the cure time and it will soften the hardness of the cure. If you get too far out of proportion you will get a sticky, soft cure that may or never harden. If you mix too much "A" side it will cure harder and often be brittle.


From a mixing/inducting procedure, best method is to do it on a flat piece of cardboard and fold the material into itself. I have witnessed a lot of different methods most resulted in inconsistent results for folks. Everything from swirling it around in circles with a paper clip and mixing material in a cup with a round end pop sickle stick. There is a video on the Epo-Grip website that shows how to properly mix these paste materials. Fact is if not properly inducted you will experience inconsistent results.

 

Glad you mentioned the mixing and making fin molds in front of people, because you and I did that once. Or at least a representative of EpoGrip. It was back in 2011, or 2012 in AL, or FL at a show. I had my fin molds, and asked you the same questions. So I went and got my molds, and we poured fins. You mixed the product from my containers, and the fin didn't hold its shape and stayed flexible. You said it was humidity, or something, but it didn't work the way you thought it was going to, I do remember that . You didn't have an answer for it then either that told me how to fix it.

and i use a UV protection auto clear. and the only part that is yellow, is where I attached the fish at the base of the fins. And others where I have made the fin from it, have yellowed also.

I know several others who are, and have experienced the same exact things I have, and too have switched off from using your products.

Just wondered if anything new came to light . thanks for taking the time to reply .

 

Jimmy,

You must be thinking about something else, because you were more than happy when you left that show.

I was the one who did those fins with your molds, it was at the 2012 Florida show. Rick Krane was unable to attend as there was a death in the family, I was asked to cover. You were upset that at Rick Krane's school your fins came out perfect..... however as soon as you got home you could not reproduce the same results. We spent time in the booth together, I personally showed and taught you some techniques to create the results you learned at Ricks school. You came by the booth every hour to see if the fins changed shape and they did not. You went home content and excited to put what you learned to use. Interesting, I have not heard from you until this thread, not a email or a phone call expressing a single issue.

I will be at the Florida show again this year, bring your molds and material and we can make fins in the booth. If you wish to discuss this further, my contact information is posted above.

 

Erik,

Most of that is true. I'm glad that I had it right that it was you . It was so long ago, and we only met that one time, so I forgot who's name it was that I was doing that with . And some of the stuff that i did at ricks are the exact fins im talking about . not so much the fins, but the attachments where the fins were glued onto the casts. They are an amber color, or faint yellow. Almost like grease bleed from a skinmount, if you understand my meaning. As are some of the fins. (i keep touching them up or else I would post a picture).

Apparently I am a bit confused at our results from that day, as my memory differs than what you have written here. However, I , and many others are having these exact same issues I am describing . I didn't call , because I would get the results i wanted every so often ,and just kind of limped through. And the only techniques you "taught" or showed me were mixing the 2 parts onto cardboard with tongue depressers. . . which i was already doing. So im not sure what you mean there.

I dealt with the results, and made changes to a different product, and way of doing my fins that I like better. I never started a post at all about it, or bashed the product. I simply stated my issues and I know several other people who have had the same issues as well. As far as I was concerned it was a dead issue, but you commented on here, and I guess I figured I would see what your thoughts were.

As I said before, thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I moved away and won't likely attend the FL show ever again. But if I run into you somewhere, I hope we can continue this discussion further.