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Epo grip shelf life

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by den007, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. DanB

    DanB New Member

    I remember that day in 2012 Jimmy. That's the day you and I first met. I remember you being very frustrated with the product because the fin would not hold its shape, etc. You and someone in the booth were trying to figure out why it was not working. Even the next day no one could figure it out.

    I ordered the Epo-Grip clear coat a couple yrs ago. After two months part B turned to a super dark apple cider look to it and part A turned into a solid hard brick.
    So I never did get to use it. These were in the containers and not even mixed yet.
     
  2. Every fin juncture i have smoothed out with fin magic has turned a dark amber yellow color and have had to re-paint and re-gloss for a BUNCH of customers. I have never used it for fin making, i can only imagine how yellow they would turn after a couple months. I have noticed that if I paint a layer of Tuff-fin over the blended pec fin transition that i used fin magic on, It will create a barrier that seems to block the yellow bleed thru
     

  3. Jimmy Lawrence

    Jimmy Lawrence Well-Known Member

    Yes Dan.... exactly right. I'm so glad I got to meet you and see your fish in person . Something I will never forget. I also got to meet Mike Kroessig and his wife also. It was a great show.

    And Shawn, thanks for confirming my results. I was fearing I was apparently alone on the thread. I know there are many others but they likely will not comment here. I just wanted answers if there was any. Nothing more.
     
  4. What are the other products to use that is a smooth consistency? Magic smooth is the only other one I know of but does that yellow over time also? I also use magic fin to rebuild areas on fish but I don't want people bringing their fish back to touch up those areas because they turned yellow. Sounds like putting a good sealer over the magic fin before painting stops the yellow from coming through.
     
  5. Jimmy Lawrence

    Jimmy Lawrence Well-Known Member

    Rich, I can only speak from my results, and experiences. But everything that has turned yellow, has had multiple sealers , paints, and clear coats over them, and it still bleeds through.

    It didn't happen with all of them ,but more than most.
     
  6. i would use magic sculpt to blend the seams on fin transitions, but its not clear. right now i am experimenting with multiple different glues, epoxies etc. So far i am finding i have good luck with super gluing the pec and pelvic fins on with any epoxy/ supper glue and then rebulding the slight seam with clear elmers glue. It takes a while to cure, but it doesn't seem to yellow. everything i have painted on top of it after curing has remained true to its color. The only thing i use fin magic or mache magic for now is epoxying the heads onto the blank.
     
  7. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    I've been away for awhile and I just read this thread. Interesting. JMO here. Let's make that my "alleged opinion" ;) For whatever the heck that's worth! Since it's a public message AND ALREADY PUBLIC, I may have an answer to one of the issues so I think it's important that I post. Otherwise I would have PM'd you BOTH about this matter. Maybe it needed to come out publicly, I don't know. But, I DO know Epo-Grip has some good products. My opinion AGAIN, for what it's worth...

    Oh, AND, to also note that I have not used the product in question. So, I cannot comment on it's ease of use or results. Alleged results. Again, my alleged opinion ;)

    Erik, I believe Jimmy knows how to mix products. Especially if he's had the personal training course on mixing - lol! You also need to understand that (when it comes to mixing) YOU are most likely the "Tom Brady" of mixing ;) Have you ever considered that you MAY be seeing tiny subtleties that Jimmy (and apparently others) aren't? And maybe IF this product is SO temperamental with yellowing, etc. with experienced taxidermists using it, with it's implications down the road for each and every one of our customers that it may be a kind've a pretty big problem for this particular product? (Maybe/maybe not, I'll explain next paragraph). But, IMO Jimmy does world class mounts and is more OCD about perfection than most anybody on this site! (Btw, that's a back-assed compliment Jimmy - lol!) Jimmy's OPINION carries a lot of weight. Just sayin'. You need to fully understand that THE single most important factor in any product we use is LONGEVITY. Everything else comes after that "given" of lasting quality. The (alleged) yellowing? Hmmmm. Yeah, lacquer based. But, if it's still bleeding through after sealing? Is that what I'm hearing? AND, this is the same product that's temperamental to mix? I know what I would do if I were you Erik, but I'll reserve my opinion on that privately if you pay the two cents - lol!

    I don't have an answer for the alleged yellowing. However, have you considered the shelf-life problem could be a distribution problem Erik and a shelf-life issue? That could easily explain much of the mixed results. On that note - Jimmy, you don't need to name the distributor but have you tried different sources? The product could simply be sitting on your distributor(s) shelves too long before sold to Jimmy. Just a thought worth considering..
     
  8. I can say this marty, every batch i have ordered has drop shipped straight from epo-grip..
     
  9. den007

    den007 Active Member

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    I have been giving some thought to things said here. The microwave soultion is NOT the way to go. I have waved this stuff and it does soften up, but then hardens to worse than it was before. Once the little goobers form, it is useless. They will not go away and provide a homogeneous mix. I love the products when new and fresh, but it does not last long. One solution…..and this is just speculation at this point, MIGHT be to get some clear plastic tubing (pet shop) and put the feesh new product in it, add a bit of Safety Solvent over the top of it, and cork it at BOTH ends. To use, drain off the safety solvent, scoop out what you need, cut down the plastic as needed, and maybe, just maybe, it might stay in a smooth consistency. Rotate the ends of the tube you work from. I will try it, if it does not work, I will buy quick set epoxy at the hardware store, thicken it with Cabosil or even whiting for replicas, and use it in tiny batches. I guess this post was needed. I do like the fresh stuff, but have had nothing but problems a short time down the road, and I am smart enough not to cross contaminate the 2 components.
     
  10. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Just my two cents here. I have been one of the trial and errors on the making of fin magic and tried for year and a half to get a darn good product for Steve.

    Now having said that. Have I seen tacky fins? Yep Was it the product? Ya cause I really didn't mix it well enough. yes yes I know, cause I would make up a second batch out of the same plastic container and got the right results. It is very easy not to get it mixed right at times. I've found that if I heat up the product with a hair dryer prior to mixing (not hot) it was easier and didn't have a problem, set up right and cured well.

    Now as I hear it bleeding through paint well it's epoxy and that would probably mean every epoxy out there that is cured on a product that was painted afterwards would turn color. Sorry through the years of using this I have yet seen this happen. (guess I'm the lucky one) I paint over my epoxy all the time and never had it discolor. Again probably me getting lucky or layering my paint so I don't have that clear looking fin.

    We talk about self life, what product do we use that doesn't have any kind of self life? Water paint pigments settle and get hard over time ( a year on most that I have used), foam products, lacquer base paints loose their chemicals. Yes we can go on and on here and never be happy with the answer anybody gives.

    As we say the maker of the product is here helping out the best he could for they know epoxy better than any one here could think of. Sometimes it just use that screws up and not always the product. JMOH here not trying to start but trying to help out with issues cause we all have them and I have a lot of them.
     
  11. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    Frank, I understand your point and not to deviate from topic. But, a quick sidenote that I have used WB paints for almost two decades now and although the pigment has solidified on a few particularly heavily pigmented paints, I still use a half dozen or so that are still hanging around from little use with no issues whatsoever. I learned that those that solidified were due to me not using them enough or not shaking them regularly. The key is to swap out the bottles of the known (problem colors) with bigger bottles so that there's room for the actual shaking and marbles to do any good. And shake them occasionally. I use to pay my kids a couple of bucks to do it - lol! Cheaper than tossing paint and they earned extra money and built up muscles!

    P.S. You're not mixing them properly - lol! ;)
     
  12. hodx

    hodx Herman Darr

    I have some left over Van Dykes Translatex paint and hydromist waterbased paints from the early 70's and they are still good
     
  13. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    lol yep you made my point on how products are and what can and can't happen.
     
  14. den007

    den007 Active Member

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    Marty, we all "shake the ol' bottle" now and then………but just keep it private and remember this is a forum for all ages! ;D