1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

Australian Dingo skulls for sale (spoken for unless someone backs out)

Discussion in 'Skulls and Skeletons' started by Sea Wolf, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Any interest? The real deal. Have two that I will be parting with ... maybe. Considering $300 each considering their rarity and generally being unavailable. Might entertain an offer. Both are adult males.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. s.iker

    s.iker New Member

    Re: Australian Dingo skulls for sale

    Cool pieces!!!! Wish i had the funds!!! Good luck sellin!
     

  3. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Re: Australian Dingo skulls for sale

    Both are spoken for unless someone backs out.
     
  4. btr

    btr Member

    176
    0
    Re: Australian Dingo skulls for sale

    Where did you find such a thing? ;D
     
  5. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    Sorry to have to tell you, they are NOT Dingo skulls.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Sorry but they are. They are documented and came straight from Australia from a Government shooter. The hides from these same animals were sold on here for taxidermy.
     
  7. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    There is no such thing a a 'Government shooter', Just individuals with a gun licence who trap, shoot or poison wild dogs and Dingoes in Australia. There is no documentation that would prove that these are Pure Dingo skulls unless DNA samples were taken and sequenced and analysed by the University of New South Wales. (I would be interested in seeing this 'documentation') Morphologically, these skulls look nothing like a Pure Dingo skull,(pics I posted are of Pure Dingoes, note the difference), these are way too short and the lack a pronounced of occipital ridge shows that these skulls come from a canid with a LOT of domestic dog ancestry. They may have Dingo lineage but I would bet my life that these animals were hybrids with a very recent dog ancestry.



     
  8. Here we go down this rabbit hole again...

    These publications are a good starting place for anyone who wants to confirm the identity of dingo skulls:

    Morphological Discriminants of Dingo and Dog Skulls (abstract): http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/ZO9800615.htm

    Phenotypic variation in dingoes: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259497358_An_assessment_of_the_taxonomic_status_of_wild_canids_in_south-eastern_New_South_Wales_Phenotypic_variation_in_dingoes
     
  9. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    Much of Corbett's work on identification using skull morphology was later debunked as it was found that he was using known hybrids in his reference samples.
    The only way to 'document' or verify purity is via DNA analysis. That aside, these skulls are clearly not from pure Dingoes.

    My concern and reason for posting is that some of you in the USA and overseas may see 'Dingo skulls', Pelts etc on Ebay and the like and be duped into purchasing a rather expensive 'dead dog'.. :/ And if it does have Dog DNA, you will be in breach of some very strict Export/Import regulation regarding the trade in 'dog' products.
    Ask for DNA proof from UNSW school of molecular biology https://www.babs.unsw.edu.au/research/dingo-dna-tests OR http://www.zoolgenetics.com/elegantthemes These are the ONLY two labs in the world that can verify Dingo Purity. If they will not provide you with documentation from these labs then it is likely you are buying 'Dog' products, and leaving yourself open to prosecution with hefty penalties. Don't just believe the word of some outback 'Dingo Dundee' shooter.. out to make a quick buck..
     
  10. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Honestly, for a newbie poster on here, I don't understand you jumping on an old and very dead post trying to create an issue where there isn't one. Skulls were papered and documented from the Australian government when they were imported. As for that documentation, it is none of your business really. What region they came from and why they were killed is also none of your business. You obviously also have no grasp of any legalities involving "dog" products even though in this instance they do not apply. If you wish to continue beating a dead horse, at least make sure it is a horse. This is the section of the forum for dead things after all.
     
  11. AH7

    AH7 New Member

    1,281
    2
    Here is the deal: anyone who is militant about the definition of a dingo, is an idiot! Dingos ARE domestic dogs. Okay, so they have been feral for a very long time, but there was probably NEVER a significant amount of time in which they were isolated and there are almost certainly zero places where "dog" genes haven't flowed into modern dingo populations.

    The classification of what it means to be a dingo is a pretty arbitrary thing. Where do you draw the line? Heck, we are now learning that much more legitimate "species" like red wolves are really much more complicated in terms of admixture. If you are going to get as exercised over what is literally a feral animal, then you must lose your mind over hybrid red wolves, bears, baboons - all much more vexing from a biological perspective.

    And, morphologically, SW's dingos are perfectly within the morphological range of dingo skulls that I have studied in the Smithsonian, American Museum of Natural History and Australia.

    Another disclosure: I am an internationally recognized carnivore morphologist with a few dozen publications on this type of thing.

    In short, CHILL!

    Also, your skull is a bit of a mess - it was a younger animal (canines not fully protruded and sutures weak), and is both greasy and porous suggesting serious problems with cleaning - probably boiled? Maybe chlorinated bleach? I love new people on here, but come on here to learn and perhaps start with the assumption that people on here know something about this stuff.
     
  12. AH7

    AH7 New Member

    1,281
    2
    Seems to have shut up or maybe he just came in for one rant and bailed.
     
  13. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    No, just really cant be fussed. But, I'll bite 8)

    Dingoes are Not domestic dogs, they are recognised as a unique and separate species. http://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science/dingo-distinct-species , http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jzo.12134/abstract and have been isolated on the Continent for at least 5,000 years, DNA points to a much longer isolation. http://www.unsworks.unsw.edu.au/primo_library/libweb/action/dlDisplay.do?vid=UNSWORKS&docId=unsworks_13425 .

    Also, plenty of places in Australia where 100% Pure Dingoes can still be found with ZERO dog gene incursion. I have a couple and have rescued many more, all DNA tested 100% Pure. http://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/files/3218391/Stephens_Danielle_2011.pdf

    Your claim that those skulls fall within the 'morphological range' of Dingo skulls could also be disputed, as recent research shows that there is little variation, even with a degree of hybridisation. The skulls offered are way outside of that 'standard' and could be argued have more lineage in common with an Australian Blue Heeler than a Dingo, and probably are. I have never seen a Dingo with a head as 'stout' as that.. https://secure-abc.net.au/news/2016-03-10/ct-scans-reveal-dominance-of-the-dingo/7233296

    The skulls shown in my images are from The Darwin Museum Government collection in the Northern Territory in Australia. http://www.magnt.net.au/#!natural-sciences/c1prz
    Be sure to pass on your critique of their Dingo Skulls and preservation to Gavin Dally, Senior Collections Manager Natural Sciences [email protected] , I'm sure he will happy to take your tips and suggestions on how to do his job.

    Cheers.
     
  14. AH7

    AH7 New Member

    1,281
    2
    No dingos are not a species by any biological measure of species and no matter how many news reports, museum specialists or unpublished thesis you copy will make this scientifically sound. Cite actual published peer evaluated research and show me a preponderance of recent published papers that actually show them as recognized at the species level, and we can have this conversation.

    For anyone else who is reading along: ACTUAL published scientists do not consider dingos a species.
     
  15. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    Good grief.
    I listed the publication:
    An updated description of the Australian dingo (Canis dingo Meyer, 1793)
    Authors
    M. S. Crowther,
    M. Fillios,
    N. Colman,
    M. Letnic
    First published: 27 March 2014


    That found that the Dingo *is* a separate species. This is by very recognised and respected Scientists. The publication wa enough evidence for the Australian Government to change the Taxonomy of the Dingo to Canis dingo. This is acknowledged by the current Australian Minister for the Environment, Gregory Hunt. How much more evidence do you require? http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jzo.12134/abstract

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/dog-gone-scientists-confirm-the-dingo-is-a-unique-species-20140328-35onp.html
    "Dr Crowther said dingoes' appropriate scientific classification was Canis dingo, as they appeared not to be descended from wolves, were distinct from dogs and were not a subspecies."
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    Minister Letter attached
     

    Attached Files:

  17. AH7

    AH7 New Member

    1,281
    2
    Just for everyone reading along: actual biologists, scientists who publish work in peer reviewed journals, all major internationally recognized organizations and basically ANY book on taxonomy, mammals (e.g., Walkers, Lynx Edicions, etc.), basically everyone other than the government officials and unpublished theses that this guy has listed consider dingos dogs!

    If he can supply one actual paper published in a major journal (preferably one with molecular data) that support dingos as a separate species, I'll be astonished. Actually, I would love to see that as I would need to incorporate that study into my actual scientific papers. Thus far, I can't find one, my students can't find one and no real scientists that I know have given me a source.
     
  18. Dingoleigh

    Dingoleigh New Member

    7
    0
    So you still won't accept the work of a scientist with over 100 published papers, his works cited in over 1000 other publications, with the one defining and describing the Dingo as a separate and distinct species, evidence and sufficient enough for the Australian Government to change the Taxonomy of the Dingo to Canis dingo and have the Federal Minister for the Environment government to acknowledge and state, "That the Dingo is now acknowledged at Species level as Canis dingo"..

    But still not good enough for you with your claims of academic superiority in anonymity?

    I'm done.. Thanks for the conversation..
     
  19. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Adam ... might you be interested in a koala? Part of the same shipment. Common sense says I need to shrink my collection somewhat. Don't know if it fits into your studies or not. Might list it and let the general public have at it. Papers from both USA and AU are with it.
     
  20. AH7

    AH7 New Member

    1,281
    2