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Is this statement about competitions true?

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by jim tucker, May 9, 2016.

  1. furtanshop

    furtanshop New Member

    The commercial division means nothing except to bring money into the show. It is far below the standard for best of show and the top
    quality standard cannot be applied to our every day commercial work and charge the the price that would be needed to be profitable.

    What price would you have to charge to give the quality of the top whitetail at the world show that was in Springfield, Mo. last year?
    How many clients would pay ?

    What is the value to a commercial taxidermist if it does not equal the top standard ?

    People like to attend the shows , and I get that.
  2. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    I understand shows need to make money and are always looking for new avenues to do so. By adding a kazillion different categories to just bring in more money will eventually catch up with you. A great show shouldnt be guaged by the over all number of mounts but by year to year growth of both number AND quality of pieces. Some shows are adding category after category just to make money plain and simple. If you wanted your show to stand above the rest then why water down the quality you want your show to be known for ?

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    duxrus, IF what you said was true (and I know for a fact it isn't), it's a very sad damned commentary when the work we provide for the people who pay our salaries isn't on the same level as the work we'd compete with. Using your analogy, how much sense does it make to PAY someone to look at your work and tell you how HE OR SHE feels about it while you stick the guy who used part of his rent money to pay for crappy work you did for him?
  4. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    Where did I say that ? I said give paying competitors a critique worth paying for. Dont know where I said anything about comparing customer work to competition work. Someone else did but wasnt me.
  5. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    A few thoughts...

    People who GO to shows see it differently than people who DONT GO to shows, and both see it differently than those few who RUN THE SHOWS.

    I recall the very early days when we first messed with commercial division, which I at first opposed. I quickly learned that it wasa money maker, plus a way for those tentative members to get their feet wet. I also saw the potential for even a seasoned professional, who didnt have or want to spend the time to do his competition level work, to bring a mount or two to still have some fun, and to use the simple ribbon for marketing, like giving that ribbon along with the commercial mount to his customer. The shame was when some states foolishly gave standard sized ribbons and full critiques with the commercial division...that DID water things down.

    I was involved in the ORIGINAL special awards idea in NY state so many years ago. Now thats a topic for conversation, as in its newest format, its really screwing up the shows, in my opinion. Some awards need to have a certain criteria level be met, simply said.
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Uuuuuhhhhh, not quite Bill. Actually the FIRST shows never involved ANY categories and they were a lot like artists exhibits. THEN some wise guy got the idea of "judging" them. But your point is well made. The IDEA of the commercial division was a good one, but like so many others, it was used by the less scrupulous to use as bragging chits. We created our own monsters; we ate our own young. When the first advertisement came out after that very first show, a dime will get you a dollar that, printed in big letters under the business name was "AWARD WINNING TAXIDERMIST".
  7. RichMO

    RichMO Well-Known Member

    a dollar that, printed in big letters under the business name was "AWARD WINNING TAXIDERMIST".

    That says a lot George.... If an organization is in need of $$$'s then why not have a Commercial Div.. As for people getting their feet wet so to speak, I thought that was the Amateur Div.....
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Rich, I sense Cole may be right (though it pains me to agree with him twice in a post). It does seem that you have seem to have some antipathy towards organized competitions. Do you REALLY think the commercial division bred that type of claim? I've seen guys with only ribbons from country fairs and 4-H use that on their advertising. The fact that each and every one of us use the exact same criteria when we see a mount picture. Sure, there needs to be a dissimilar ribbon for this category (As Ralph Garland once said, "I'm a crook and I suspect all of you are to some degree as well.) but at least, in this case, a judge is just looking at your wall and picking out the best looking mount without the optivisor and flashlight. You can bet that the individuals winning "state champion", "National Champion", and most certainly "World Champion" are going to have advertisements much different from the guy who wins a blue in the commercial division. The Latin phrase is "caveat emptor" and if the buyer doesn't beware, then it really doesn't matter. I've seen some legitimate "champions" who put out crappy commercial work.
  9. Cory

    Cory Keep an eye on quality!

    In KS we give out pink (1st), brown (2nd) and orange (3rd) in the commercial division. The ribbons are CONSIDERABLY SMALLER and the taxidermist may not go home and say they are a "blue ribbon award winner" in case of a first place offering. We too thought this would be used by newcomers and seasoned vets without the time for a competition piece. It however has not been used very much at all. It is still there as a category in case a new member would like to "get his feet wet".
  10. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

    My only thought on the commercial division is I think they should get a critique for future reference. Go ahead and judge them from a distance but then give them some kind of a written critique so they can go home and improve their work.
    Cory has an excellent point as well, its not going to be a large division anyway so why worry about it.
  11. RichMO

    RichMO Well-Known Member

    George, I'm all for the competitions just don't see the need for the Commercial Division. If that is what is actually called an Amateur Division then it might make more sense. I try to attend my state show and tomorrow head to the UTA show. Yes, I enter in the pro division and with one thing in goal and that is to make my self better. If the competitor does not receive a critique then he or she got shorted and as for judging the 10 ft. ruling to me is a joke.... A judge should know what to look at far or near without the need of a light and glass.
    The other question is just how many divisions does one need or how many special awards does it need. I don't advertise that I have ribbons for the green..... I get my business from word of mouth (but then again I'm just a part timer). After this post I'll bow out of this thread and let others contemplate on what is right or wrong..... In the mean time I have to finish packing for tomorrows run to Louisville....
  12. I have never been in favor of the Commercial Division.
  13. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    I may be wrong on this so if you folks want to blast me on it go ahead, I have thick skin. I am not degrading this category; it really does not matter to me whether it exists or not.

    It seems to me that if someone is going to enter a mount in a competition they are going to want the mount to look the best it can. Therefore the chances are it is not a genuine representation of their "commercial mount" because they will tweek it to look better than their "normal work." Nobody want to go to a show with a shabby mount by comparison to others in their class.


    AFTHUNT Well-Known Member

    Here in Wi commercial division gets judged by some of our masters people and you get a sheet with comments on it and you can take that sheet to any of the masters guys or the guy who judged it and they will give a critique. So i guess in my opinion this is a great division for the beginner to get his feet wet in competition. No it is not the complete judging but it is a start for people to see how they are doing. Just my 2 cents worth for what it is worth.
  15. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    No matter the division, it's still an "opinion"...... I sincerely wish more Taxidermist's would spend the time and get as serious about how they represent this industry with the product they put out and the prices they charge as they do when trying to win a thin piece of cloth. The priorities this industry pushes seem rather narrow and for the lack of a better word, ****ed up.
  16. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    To me, the commercial division make sense from a competitors point of view AND from the organizations view. In Ky, I have entered pieces of my clients because I haven't really had the time to put together a competition piece. I wanted to participate and support my state association. Ky also has a best all around commercial taxidermist award which is awarded to the highest average of three commercial entries. It has to be one in each of the categories such as Birds, fish, gameheads, mammals etc but the competitor only has to enter in three otherwise he or she gets a ribbon for what the entry placed.
    From an organizations point the commercial division possibly allows competitors that normally wouldn't participate an avenue to be a part of the competition and also to support the organization.
    Personally I can't see a downside to having this division. If you don't want to participate in this division then don't but please don't be negative towards those that are trying to help the organization as well as the people that could possibly use this division as a means of entry into the world of competing...
  17. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Reading some of these comments, Im convinced that many dont know how the commercial division is run OR have seen it run wrong. As a judge, I still write a couple comments down, and I will also critique in that division.

    And George, while your point is well taken, we both know that the guy who will brag about being award winning, will also do so from some silly local fair award too. Lets face it, we are not going to change inaccurate claims in advertising in taxidermy or any business.
  18. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    So is the commercial division a free for all no matter the level of competitor or for people to get a feel for competing ?
  19. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    It is a free for all to allow participation at all levels and to create revenue for the organization. Please don't look any deeper than that because there isn't anything more. Remember, it's just you and the judge with no best of categories and the entry is not eligible for any major awards. I really don't understand what the fuss is about.......
  20. duxrus

    duxrus Active Member

    A free for all "entry" level commercial category kinda seems like that would be defeating the purpose of having it. Shouldnt it be a stepping stone like amature especially if it has such a broad judging ? I thought that was the driving idea behind it. Not very welcoming to beginner competitors with them potentially being thrown in the mix with top level people. I will have to disagree on that being a great idea toward helping new people "get their feet wet" . A free for all really only adds to the idea of $ for a ribbon. IMO

    Do other states or shows treat it as basically an open division or "free for all" ? Just curious. I might have just assumed it was treated as an entry level category.