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Competition ?'s

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by Gary A, May 10, 2016.

  1. Gary A

    Gary A N. West Taxidermy 208-404-9706

    Thanks Cole, renews my confidence in the old trusty whitetail. My ultra comfort zone is the mighty whitety. But the tweeks would apply to all my big game heads. The javelina is cast lip and nose. Loss of difficulty points on easy stuff like that? Just did a warthog today. What a pain in the ass. Africrap. I think I may have stole that phrase from someone on here years ago. Sure wish I was back in S. Texas to get my hands on a kudu I could tan and prep myself. Lol
     
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Cole, I know you're not that gullible and I'd hope you're not disassociated so much as to believe what you said. I see things done to whitetails in competition that I'd challenge you, on your very best day, to find replicated in nature. I've seen points deducted for "one nostil is 1/8 inch narrower than the other","lip line showing too much (too little) front lip", "eyelashes on one eye are bent down farther than other side", "ear butt doesn't have the proper amount of wrinkles", "specks of dirt found in hair", "septum not detailed enough", "blemish in finish work".....want me to continue???? Everybody's a deer guru at competitions. Mount a tahr or musk ox and see what you get. Try a muskrat in full winter pellage and see where that goes. Porcupines are a good choice as no one is going to check the grooming.

    Most competitors notice this to be a fact. In the 70's/80's, about half the competition pieces were whitetails. Many shows would hire an extra judge to do just whitetails. Now, those percentages have tumbled and more people are spreading out. Bill Yox once lamented that you will NEVER again see a plain closed mouth, shoulder mount whitetail entered into any big competition. Yet in nature, a whitetail is seldom seen with its mouth opened and certainly not on a floor pedestal.
     

  3. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Disassociated? I have been the president of the Missouri association for 4 years, and was a board member several years prior to that. I have actively competed every year since 2008, attending at least 3 or 4 conventions per year. I have entered birds, turkeys, gameheads, lifesize mammals, whitetails, fish, and replicas in these shows. I have even judged a couple times. I am the opposite of disassociated. In the 70's and 80's you hired a judge just for whitetails? This is done at every show I have attended, so I'd say it didn't die in the 80's. Whitetails still make up the bulk of any competition, and as long as they are the main income source for most taxidermy studios here in the Midwest, that won't be changing. As for live whitetails not being perfect, of course they aren't. That being said, you could tell a live whitetail from a mounted one from across the room. That goes for most things (even muskrats). Judges are hired to find flaws in our work, that is their job. That doesn't mean we should try to trick them by mounting something they can't judge. Mount what you are comfortable with, let it be judged, learn from your critique. Coming into a show with an attitude like yours is a great way to leave without having learned a damn thing.
     
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Cole, I'm not measuring peckers with you and I could care less if you're the Grand Poo Bah of Turd Island, just take a look at Leonard Lee Rue's book "The Deer of North America" and tell me that some of those live deer could withstand even that "commercial" category at the Nationals. And I don't know where you were led to believe judges were hired to find flaws. Only in this industry has that become the hue and cry of all of you competitors. Judges SHOULD be looking for the things that are RIGHT and even you might be amazed how many hard feelings would be eliminated. I hope like hell we never get a taxidermy judge in traffic court or in any court for that matter.
     
  5. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    Some people always need to have the last word to feel like their 2 cents is actually valid anymore Cole. I now await a sarcastic reply that means absolutely nothing.
     
  6. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    George, you are the one that is disassociated. When was the last time you had a mount judged in a show? Every judge that I have had has found things they liked about my mounts, and things they thought I could have done better. That is the point of this competition thing...to learn. You've always been a bitter ass when it comes to competitions. Maybe that's just an east coast thing, I'm not sure, but I am sure as hell glad I didn't attend the same competitions you did because I wouldn't be where I am today had I quit going to shows. Competing has been a blast for me. I've won some awards, I've lost to guys like Brian Reinertson ;), I've learned a TON, built a great network of knowledgeable contacts in the industry, but most of all I have gained friends for life. I wouldn't change a thing, and I have no plans to ever stop attending shows, competing against friends, teaching those that may not know as much and learning from those that know so much more. I'm not sure exactly what it is that has turned you off so freaking bad, but I hate to see your bitterness keep someone new to the industry from experiencing something that can be so beneficial to them.
     
  7. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    OH, would you PLEASE stop your tap dancing. You can't determine if the guy was a "judge" or just someone "critiquing" your mount (those guys are PAID TO FIND THINGS WRONG - I think those were your words). If judging was ever a scientific art rather than a personal observation, then Larry could save money at the World Show. You know good and well that some pieces that scored well at Worlds had endured some pretty shaky marks at state level. (I'm old but I have tack sharp memory if you'd like me to point out a few of those instances.) I can also bet you that I could take a 'commercial" piece that Rick Carter or Ken Walker had mounted to most shows and win a blue ribbon on it.

    I couldn't agree more about the competitions. Whether you compete (and you certainly should if you want to see how your work compares with others looking to be at the top of the "game" competitors play) or whether you're just there for new ideas or perhaps just to take advantage of the suppliers bargains available. ANYONE who goes to a competition and makes some lame ass claim that they didn't get their admissions worth is just someone walking around with a chip on their shoulder.
     
  8. Gary A

    Gary A N. West Taxidermy 208-404-9706

    Thanks for all the insights. Im going to bring 4 or 5 mounts to the show. I may knock out a lifesize javelina with a bum hole and pp. gemsbok is drying. I'll be sure to post up how it goes show is on 11 june.
     
  9. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Now I'm not even sure what you are arguing about, and I'm sure as heck not tap dancing around anything. I did say they are paid to find flaws in a mount.

    I never said that is all they are paid to do. Judging comes with an entire list of responsibilities.
    I never said judging wasn't subjective. It isn't black and white, (or a scientific art) but it is largely based on science.
    I never said strong world show pieces would always do well at other shows.
    I never said Rick Carter or Ken Walker couldn't do well at a show with customer mounts. There are lots of taxidermists that can. I have taken client work to shows multiple times.

    I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I felt differently. All of the above being true, whitetails are still a great thing to compete with (no more difficult than any other category), and competitions are a fantastic way to learn and get better. This is what got you all riled up, and this is still exactly how I feel.
     
  10. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    That's awesome. Just go into it with an open mind, listen to what the judges have to say and try to soak up as much information as you possibly can. You will have a great time, I have little doubt.
     
  11. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

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    You are just rambling to ramble now George..

    All I compete with is customer mounts. Have fun Gary, you will learn a bunch and meet friends at the show. It's not about bragging rights, it's about fun and getting better! If it weren't for these shows there is no way I'd be doing ok with Masters whitetails and that's a fact..
     
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    If it waddles and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.
     
  13. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    QUACK!
     

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  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Was that a "quack" because I agreed with part of your comments or disagreed with part of them?
     
  15. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I don't know, I just wanted to photoshop a duck bill on ya. :D
     
  16. txoutdoors

    txoutdoors Active Member

    [/quote]

    I don't know, I just wanted to photoshop a duck bill on ya. :D

    [/quote]

    LMAO
     
  17. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    Now that's funny
     
  18. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I thought so too.
     
  19. Steven Klee

    Steven Klee Steven Klee Studios

    Hmmmm....
     

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  20. Gary A

    Gary A N. West Taxidermy 208-404-9706

    An update for anyone curious how it went. I put a lifesize javelina in open got an 88. Got a blue ribbon and best in category on my gemsbok. I put a whitetail in masters and got an 88. But did win best whitetail for the state, Mckenzie award and taxidermists choice. Real happy with that. Learned a TON! Several dings i was like "huh". Lol. Great time and next year look out. Haha. Thanks everyone great time/experience for sure!!!