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What do you think?

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Carolin Brak-Dolny, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    To elaborate on some posts made here about the Maine show and posts about the UTA show.

    What is your opinion of having a show- a large show , examples ( UTA, NTA, WTC, or Big Rock etc) that allows in the MASTERS DIVISION ONLY new mounts that have never been to ANY OTHER show?

    Provided you have a years time to prepare.
     
  2. Amy

    Amy Mammal artist

    To me, that seems like the opposite of how the progression should go.

    Even though its not the order we always compete in, moving from state, on to nationals, and lastly the worlds, seems to make sense.

    What I hate to see is a national or world winning piece dropping back down to a lower level show. I can see how that would cause issues with some. If a piece had to premier at that high level, a lot of people would be unable to show it anywhere else, either due to personal morals or for fear they would catch flack for it

    But that's only my opinion! I'll often take a mount to a couple state shows, but worlds is always the retirement show for any pieces I bring.
     

  3. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    I'll start by saying I don't compete, on that note. I do also understand the need to learn and improve. I am not a fan of the idea of the traveling mount game. I do appreciate the time and effort as well as cost of putting together a show piece and the competitor's desire to "Get their money's worth", but having the chance to get critiqued and then, if possible, fix the issues, before the next comp, to me is a tad like cheating. How many put half the effort into customer work? Don't give me the cost BS. Think about how much money you could make in the time a comp piece takes you to do, by getting customer work done. Competitions are held to see who is the best on that day. So put a piece together for that comp and see how you stack up that day, use what you learn for your customer work and your next comp piece, but you should retire that mount after the show.
     
  4. PA

    PA Well-Known Member

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    I also don't really compete - I entered once in the last 20 years. However, there seems to be an unwritten rule that mounts can move up from state to nationals to world. But in the last couple months many UTA mounts went to the NTA and then some NTA mounts went on to state shows. There was really no time to make adjustments of the mounts in between - though there were separate judges who could have offered ideas on how to improve the mounts. Once you have a very nearly perfect mount, I do feel that moving from one convention to another is shopping for awards. But, conversely, having those mounts able to be viewed in person is a benefit for the other taxidermists who get to see the mounts in person - and for the general public who gets to see world class mounts before they go on to the World show. I do wonder how many of this years big winners will go on to the World Show next year. I have mixed feeling on this as most people here probably do. The amount of effort to put together a competition piece is rarely justified unless you have a customer willing to pay for the time you put in on an hourly basis. Taxidermy pieces have much different prices that 'art pieces' to the paying audience.
     
  5. Taxiserv

    Taxiserv James Newport

    I have no problem w a piece going to ten different shows. If the individual pays his membership and wants to drive all over the country then it's up to him. Funny quote " Going to a competition is one of the best thing you can do to become a better taxidermist, but now going to two shows and your a warmonger chasing ribbons!!!"
     
  6. I just wanted to make sure that you all know that there will be no rule changes for the 2016 M.A.T show. We will discuss this issue and other at the general membership meeting.
     
  7. ryan rhodes

    ryan rhodes Active Member

    3bears, what does what someone does in their spare time have anything to do with it? If a taxidermist, full time or not, chooses to spend 300 hours of his own personal time on a piece, so what? With that mentality, why does any human go on vacation or just not work every waking hour of the day?! Think of how much money they could make if they just never lived life and worked like slaves....!
    I personally wouldn't bring a piece to state show if I won worlds or nationals with it, which I haven't! That being said, if I do a nice waterfowl piece and do well at a states how, why do people take issue with it? 80% of my business is out of state. If I relied on a local economy for my taxidermy business, id be a bus driver... I have dozens of clients from all over the US that travel to Maine to shoot sea ducks. What is wrong with me trying to win at several surrounding shows of an area where I want to capture business? Namely, waterfowl. If I want to show potential clients that I'm their man when it comes to ducks, it sounds better if I can say I'm New England champion, northern New England champion, blah blah blah. Even if they really don't know what that means. Someday I'd like to say national and world champion, I'm dreaming of course, but I'm trying...
    If I had the time and money, I'd go to the NY and Jersey show, I just can't physically do it. Most of the guys in New England,NY, and Jersey work that circuit of shows because we're small and close knit. I've never had beef with someone because they have mounts at 3 shows. They did the work, if they win at every show, good for them! Next year my goal is to beat them!!!
     
  8. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Ryan, you are correct, I don't care what folks do in their spare time, but I didn't consider that. In your case, are you talking about spectators or taxidermists at a comp? Even the most humble folks like to have their ego stroked now and again, myself included, I get that. It has been proven over and over that some can do a stand up job on a comp piece only to suck at every day customer work. I have my views and you have yours, they differ that is all.
     
  9. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion as I stated in the other thread, eliminating mounts that have won at previous shows is dumbing down the competition, any way you look at it. If they take their critique and tweak it a little and it's makes it a better mount then great it ups the quality of the competition. That is no different than taking your critique and applying the same changes to the mount you do next year. It's the exact same thing you're just tweaking different mounts.

    Take your mounts to as many shows as you want who cares. If it makes the show tougher then so be it. If you can't beat them then go home and bring a better mount next year. If Rodney wants to bring all those amazing worms and stuff that he's won world with to a show I say bring em! The masters division should be the best of the best. The truth be known there is usually very little you can do to a mount to make any difference before the next show, not enough to really make a difference maybe a point or two. Who is judging is way more of a factor than getting several critiques. A new judge just might not like the changes you made, if you made any.

    To answer your question Carolin If they did that at a major show I'd still go but I can assure you as others have said before it would kill the show. I'd bet more than half of the masters division at worlds had been somewhere else and they aren't going to risk ruining their masters division by limiting the numbers ever more than they are now.
     
  10. ryan rhodes

    ryan rhodes Active Member

    I'm not sure what you mean by spectators at a comp? Taxidermists just their watching?
    I realize everyone's opinion is going to differ, wasn't trying to come off harsh towards your opinion. But people compete for any number of reasons. I've never been competitive in my life. I've been competing, mostly poorly, and didn't get serious about it till the last 2 or 3 years or so. I try to stay humble, anyone can beat anyone! Any given Sunday as they say. I now have a bit of a competitive spark and I wanna see how far I can take it personally. But I'm also using it for my business to market myself to specific people. Collectors of waterfowl who look for certain things. I consider myself a mediocre taxidermist, I'm not special. I can do an ok bird but I'm never happy with them. I also compete because it shows me/forces me to do things I might not otherwise do commercially, but probably should if I want my birds to stand apart from the average ones available by most commercial taxidermist. I have respect for guys and girls who attend shows but don't compete, they're just there to soak up knowledge and learn to give their clients better pieces. At least you're there and making an effort. Competition isn't for everyone, and I've only been at the masters DOE division for the last year and it's kinda nuts what it takes to do a bird or any animal at that level. It takes a lot out of you...
     
  11. BrianHendricks

    BrianHendricks Member

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    I'm with the Texas fellas on this one. Bring it from anywhere, anytime, whatever. I wouldn't care if you could bring past winners to the same show again. If nobody ever thought they could do better than what's been done before there would have only ever been one show. So, the more the merrier ! The better the show ,the sweeter the victory for those who win.
     
  12. Carolin Brak-Dolny

    Carolin Brak-Dolny Active Member

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    What if this show became the one to win? Everyone strived to win this one because it was the hardest to win.

    All the mounts would be new, not shown all over the internet, you would have the wow factor because nobody had seen it before. Nobody would be comparing what one judge said or what the other one said. Nobody would be fixing something (ha give me a week and I can fix a lot) because the judge told them what was wrong. The judges would also have a clean slate, and not be worrying about how some other judge scored the mount.


    Remember this is to be only the masters and only at this particular show.

    (State shows are still for learning. And for state shows, I think worrying if the person actually lived in the state is of no value. Borders mean nothing.)

    I think people would strive to attend this show, It would become the top show.
     
  13. If I understand your question Carolin, a mount never shown before going straight to the masters at a large show???

    No problem no need to campaign and gather ribbons and ribbon. Go for it.
     
  14. In nearly all competitions teams or individuals travel the country or world with the same gear or abilities to challenge themselves and other competitors. It is a game of sorts we play. One may very well continue to see the same entries from competition to competition within our yearly schedule. Many states, national and of course the World Show award large sums of money to certain categories. This is mostly done to draw attendance and as long as it is done you will always see certain entries at many of these events hoping to cash in. It is part of the game we play and that,as I see it, is OK.

    During this process one would hope that everyone involved is also learning and honing their individual skills from winning and losing. There is much to be gained from both sides of that coin.

    Best of luck to each and every one of you that compete in the competitions remaining this year and all the competitions next year. See ya down the road somewhere!!
     
  15. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Ryan, I meant the general public. I have not competed but see the pictures of the same mounts from different competitions. I have been slowly getting the urge to compete so I may just dive in one of these days and then maybe I'll change my mind. I have to ask, when someone travels with a mount is it required to be entered in the same category as it was enter at previous shows?
     
  16. Tri-State

    Tri-State Member

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    I am all for taking a piece to multiple shows unless you won a Texas state championship with it. Then it should be retired with honor and start working on the next cutting edge piece. ;D
     
  17. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    Now Ben, you be nice :)
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    I like this thread. I had a good conversation with Paul yesterday and I got to hear a bit more about about the situation. From my point of view, you're lucky if you can even have the opportunity to go to multiple shows in one year. For a Canuck it's a major undertaking to attend even one show stateside. Also, it's quite impressive to walk into a place of business and see a wall full of awards. The client never asks if they are all for one mount or not. They just are impressed to see a wall of achievements. For someone trying to compete in a competitive market or hang on to clients it can be perceived as a necessary evil. It really comes down to a moral decision, and rules and regulations will never "legislate" morality. Morals are taught at home. Of course it's not immoral to go to more than one competition with the same piece, but you catch my drift. Let's face it, it takes a pile of time to put a competition piece together and if you are, in fact, prepping for the Worlds or the Nationals it's a good idea to be critiqued by as many judges as one can. Plus the opportunity is right in front of you. Good ole temptation. I think a positive solution can be found and something can be done to address concerns that doesn't exclude anyone. 8)
     
  19. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I have never understood why any association would create rules that deter competitors from attending. I am glad here in MO we do not have these types of rules. I have been to states that only give awards to residents of their state, and all of us from out of state were not eligible to win. I've been to states that don't allow WTC winners to enter in their show. I've been to states that don't allow a mount in their show that was competed with over 18 months prior. None of these rules do anything to improve a show, or it's numbers. Suggesting "large" shows like the UTA or NTA should consider such a rule is laughable. These shows aren't large...they don't even compete with mediocre state shows when it comes to attendance. They are struggling to get people to attend, they should be doing everything they can to attract competitors, not drive them away. It seems to me all of these rules are brought up for one reason and one reason only....because people don't like tough competition. Anything they can do to dumb down the show and give them a better opportunity to win is their only motivation. That's CRAP. First of all, it's not that you win, it's who you beat. It means a lot more to win against the best in the industry. Second, if you don't like getting beat by the same few taxidermists every year....get better.
     
  20. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    I may be wrong but from what I've read in some of the replies, competitions in themselves are competing against other competitions, also that they are the main reason to even have associations. I'll be damned. I thought it was to advance our education in this craft as well have a united voice when it comes to dealing with issues that affect our lively hood.