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Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by critterstuffer, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. critterstuffer

    critterstuffer New Member

    I use dry preservative on my deer shoulder mounts. Can I please get a few opinions on epoxy hide pastes yall use? I loved Ronald Carter's "Lock-Tite" but being it is unavailable, I'm currently using McKenzie's Extreme. It seems ok but would like to have some alternatives. Thank you for your time folks.
  2. bhymel

    bhymel Member

    Go to the tutorials Michael P has a receip for hide paste , no pins needed. cleans up with water.

  3. Dave Byrd

    Dave Byrd Active Member

    I've never used the epoxy pastes. I buy a paste in powder form and mix with water until I get the consistency I like. It's called Nature's Own hide paste sold by Second 2 Nature Taxidermy Supply. Its the old Dan Chase E Z mount hide paste with a different name. I use it with their dry preservative and get all the detail I want in my mounts. I'm sure it doesn't lock down like an epoxy would but I like being able to "model" the details with my paste for a couple of days after mounting.
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I'm not trying to bust anyones bubble, but if you're using DP and conventional glues, you're playing with your ass. Simple as that. Dry preservative has an astringent that hydroscopic and when it does, the hide swells. When the air is dry, the moisture is wicked off. That means there's a constant ebb and flow of the hide on the form. When you used paper forms, you got away with a lot of stuff that today's closed cell foam manikins don't afford you. Eventually you're going to get drumming and no one is going to convince me differently.

    When Steve Steinbring decided to cross over from furniture adhesives to taxidermy adhesives, I did extensive studies on the effects and reactions of glues. Dry Preservative hides got a great deal of attention. I heard the same old BS line about regular glues holding. Yeah, they did, but only for the first few months. Since they were already hanging on someone's wall by that time, and hunters notoriously ignore their mounts, no one noticed that all the detailing was melting away and drumming was taking place. In order for the hide to permanently stay in place, a glue had to be stronger than the natural contractions of the hide. Additionally, spot gluing had to be stopped. Every inch of the manikin had to have hide paste applied. If you cheated, the unglued areas would contract stronger than the glue in the detail areas could hold.

    Ron Carter's Lock Tite wasn't an epoxy. It was a polymer that never really hardened. It was a very strong contact glue and aside from getting high each time I used it, it did work really well. I presume those fumes and the chemical reactions got the attention of some government agency and the glue was discontinued. When Steve broke into the market with Epo-Grip Epoxy Hide Paste, other companies began marketing similar products. I'm not sure of the Killer Glue recipe but it seems to be a bastardized version of Lock Tite. I'm not a big fan of it.

    Michael P.'s hide paste WILL work, but it's not a stand along product with DP. You MUST treat the hide with Stop Rot during the process. StopRot works molecularly and the tendency to shrink is very minimal.

    If you elect to use epoxy. you need to mix enough to do the complete mount. THE NEXT STEP IS IMPERATIVE!!!! Mix it and then pour it out into a large sheet pan or on a large piece of cardboard. Epoxy cures with an extreme chemical reaction. If you leave it in the bowl you mixed it and if it's over about an inch thick as you wait, it will generate massive amounts of heat, set your bowl on fire and then turn to rock within an hour or two. Spreading it out removed self induced heating and prolongs the cure up to 6 hours.
  5. Dave Byrd

    Dave Byrd Active Member

    This is one of my early mounts. I put it in the attic about 4 - 5 years ago. It was dry preserved and mounted with the paste I described using in an earlier post. The manikin was roughed up and sprayed down with 3M adhesive. The mount has NOT been taken care of. I live in the eastern part of Texas with extreme heat and humidity during the summer months.

    In the pictures you can see that the detail in the face and neck has not "melted" away. There is some drumming in the arm pit area and immediately above the upper lips. Other than that, I cannot find any other areas that have drummed. For a mount that has been in an attic for several years, I think the hide paste held the details pretty well.



  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I see it but I know that the exception to the rule with DP. This ain't exactly my first rodeo. I was using Calorax back in the 1950's on paper manikins.
  7. Dave Byrd

    Dave Byrd Active Member

    I've gotten too much consistency to be an exception to the rule.
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Then perhaps it's YOU who's the "exception". You're simply not going to find many who'll agree with you.
  9. Dave Byrd

    Dave Byrd Active Member

    Fair enough. Agreement among taxidermists is in short supply anyway.
  10. I've been using Headlock epoxy available through McKenzie. Maybe a little pricey but I think I its worth it for the results. Works great with DP no drumming. Doesn't come out of hair easy but I have had success with a dab of finger nail polish remover. George is right about mixing enough for the entire mount and spreading it out. If not it cures quick. I previously used a powder glue that required mixing with water. I feel like it added unnecessary moisture to a mount that already had too much if you were using DP