1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

CWD

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by 3bears, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    I received a letter from the state today that informs me of what they expect me to do when and if a customer brings in an "Illegal deer", meaning from another state. I am to do my normal info gathering and then call them with the customer standing here and report it, I then can take possession of said "Illegal deer". A warden will be dispatched to the customers house to give a written warning for the deer. How many customers do you think this will cost us? It is the states job to police this, not ours. They have sent a similar letter to meat processor and expect them to do the same. I am not a game warden, I am a licensed taxidermist. I feel this is going too far. I'm not sure what we can do about this but if anyone from the NTA or the UTA can be of any assistance, please contact me via pm or reply back here? If we, as an industry, want to be considered legit we need to be heard. This may not be happening to you yet, but rest assured it will. We have had one confirmed wild case in MN and it was proven to be from an infected private elk herd. It scared a ton of people and they voiced their opinions loudly to the DNR. Guess who they are listening to now? Not taxidermists, not meat processors.
     
  2. Not your job to be the warden. Yea same crap here. Dollars is all they are seeing.

    By my DNR rules we will follow them, which says I can skin the heads out int he hot zone and throw them over the hill. Right in the heart of the water way and spread the prions.

    I ask for stiffer regs and gave them an outline of what should be done. I love it when allegedly educated people are simply put, Full of Bull Crap
     

  3. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    All I can say is wow to that John.
    The big game program leader for the MNDNR has asked me to call him tomorrow. We'll see where this goes. I have no intentions to bend over and take it, they at least have to take me to dinner and get me drunk first.
    On another note I found the story referring to how it got to New York. The article said that it was probable that the fawns that the taxidermists had could have contracted it from the animals in his shop, from out west, because they were allowed to run anywhere, it did not confirm that it was the route of transmission only probable, another words it was a theory, not a proven fact.
     
  4. We live on the border of Wisconsin and the UP. A processor that used to send me a ton of work and cut up 150 to 200 deer per year now does only about two dozen each deer season. That decline is a result of Wisconsin deer not being allowed into Michigan because of CWD. I also have to drive to the customers house to cape the deer that were taken five miles from my shop because they were shot on the wrong side of an imaginary line. I do it, but its a pain. The severe winters don't help either, but CWD has had a major impact in our area.
     
  5. Gary B.

    Gary B. Active Member

    3bears let us know how your discussion with the DNR goes- I received my letter yesterday- I would think that the part in the letter about the proper disposal of the skull etc. should be enough-for this year. most customers do not even know about this yet and then the DNR is going to contact them and give them a warning. Well that will tick them off- not a good PR move on the DNR part. As usual the MN DNR is coming late to the party, this should have been done six months ago and many major PR announcements and meetings should have been completed so hunters know in advance and could prepare.
     
  6. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    I will Gary. Yes seasons in other states have been going for a while.
    There are studies that say that transmission from remains disposed of in a lined landfill is very unlikely to ever happen. That is likely why they will allow it this year. From what I have gathered from both the MTG and MAMP, this is what they may support for the future, because it such a touchy subject, neither appear to be willing to draw a line in the sand. Allow the transport into state the remains of deer, but only to a licensed meat processor and or taxidermist that disposes in an already acceptable documented manner. I'm certain nobody wants to promote the spread of this disease, but I do wish that more folks, in at least 2 of the industries that this ban negatively impacts, would step up and voice their concerns.
    It's interesting or even odd what science, if any, they choose to accept as truth only to ignore others or be very skeptical of.
     
  7. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    I just got off the phone with the DNR and they are pretty much set on this. I informed them that I do not like being the front line for them. His response was that, "We have to work together on this issue." Which is true, but I am not an employee or representative of the DNR, and we are required to call it in with the customer there, prior to us taking possession.
    I asked what landfills were acceptable and he informed me that he would get me a list of landfills and incinerators and transfer stations but, it was basically up to me to do my research on what ones were lined and would accept remains and or call the local wildlife manager. I said this should have been completed and available prior to the change, he agreed.
    I asked why the MTG was not contacted for input prior to the change. His response was that they were under a time restraint and had difficulty contacting anyone, I had to call BS on that one. I informed him of what he already likely knew and that was the MTG has a website with board member contact info and that we all as taxidermists are required to have a license, so they know damn well how to contact most of us, after all he said that all licensed taxidermists were mailed the letter.
    I am doing what I can to contest the rule change as it is presently and the fact that we were not consulted prior to but am running out of ideas for avenues to do so. Maybe someone else has some ideas, step up.
     
  8. I haven't received a letter yet from MNDNR. Yes - I do have a license.
     
  9. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    Bruce, he said all known taxidermists got a letter mailed out to them. So you should get one.
    I asked how he intends to pursue the unlicensed guys and make sure they are compliant with the rules, he had no answer other than to infer that we need to police ourselves. He also didn't have an answer for the illegal dumping of carcasses, that is already a problem in this state.
    I wonder if they are giving out TIP rewards for the reporting of violations?
    I must be the only one that is concerned enough to stick my neck out. WHY? I understand that some are busy but, if things like this go unchecked that may very well change for the worse. Not one taxidermist or meat processor, I've been in contact with has been a fan of this new rule change.
    Again a rule that impacts the law abiding citizen and does little or nothing to those who skirt the law. It also turns what would otherwise be law abiding citizens into criminals, many unknowingly.
     
  10. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    I just remembered some more of our conversation. He strongly suggested that other states are not doing a very good job of monitoring the disease or preventing it's spread as the reason for this new rule change. He used Arkansas as an example.
    They are planning on making a video of the proper way to cape a deer using a taxidermist to do it, funny thing is they can't come up with a deer. WTH? I saw 2 dead bucks on the road today. I told him that videos already exist and they don't do chit unless people watch them. On that note, once they complete it the groups that they did consult about the rule are going to publish it on their sites and promote it. I know a ton of sportsman and only know a few who are members of and less that are active in following what happens with those organizations. The seasons are already in progress in many places, putting a condom on after sex is a tad useless, don't you think? But that is why they are only planning on warning people this year, unless you do not comply, then they are fining you, the customer and confiscating their trophy. I see it now folks aren't going to remember that they screwed up by bringing a deer back but rather by bringing it to the taxidermist they did, who's hands were tied, but they won't know or care.
     
  11. Shawn, some folks do dump deer parts in public road ditches and on public land. Which is illegal. But as far as I know, you can still dump them on your own land or on other private land with the owner's permission.
     
  12. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    Yes Bruce, unless it is an "Illegal" deer from out of state. That is my point, I think everyone knows that dumping deer anywhere but your private land or land you have permission to do so is illegal but, it's prevalence has not diminished hardly at all if any. With the PC nature of this society, nobody wants to be seen with a deer carcass in their trash. They don't have an answer for it and I fear it will get worse with the new rules especially when the wardens are busy checking taxidermists and delivering warnings for "Illegal" deer.
     
  13. oldboar

    oldboar Taxidermy...do the impossible:)

    726
    1
    John Creager, Name the last time there was a human being that died from a CWD infected deer in the USA.

    What a F'ing joke.

    Cmon man...
     
  14. Same prion 14-3-3
     
  15. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    It has started already, I had a very good customer in yesterday afternoon that is headed to MO deer hunting this fall. I informed him of the new rule change, he said that because of it he will likely have his deer mounted by a taxidermist there, if he is successful, instead of dealing with it. There is a group of 5 going from MN and I have completed work in the past for at least 3 of them. That didn't take long for me to lose income.
    John has it been proven that humans contracted the prion 14-3-3 from infected deer? From what I've read it is either genetic or spontaneous, without a proven cause. How many people living in the areas of the country that have had the disease present have contracted it? If it is spread by ingesting excreta, and the prion does not degrade, wouldn't there be a heck of a lot more cases. Many of us know that it is hard to keep deer out of a garden, even in town and deer eat and excrete at the same time.
     
  16. BrookeSFD16

    BrookeSFD16 Well-Known Member

    They are looking into implementing similar laws in Louisiana, and doing it mid-season. We live 4 miles from the Texas line. Texas law says that you must leave at least one bone in the meat to transport.... Louisiana law wants to say that all meat must be deboned. How's that gonna work?

    Best part is, DWLF had a meeting to discuss it...4 people showed up.

    I agree that it's not our (Taxidermists) job to police. Still waiting to hear from LADWLF as to what they are gonna do.
     
  17. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    I urge you to not wait and see what the government does about it, voice your point of view to them, prior to their decision. You may not influence them much but at least try.
     
  18. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    It would appear that folks in MN are either trying to fly under the radar or maybe even scared to speak up against the new rules being enacted by the DNR. I Have not been able to gain any support from anyone. Why? I have openly asked the MTG, NTA, UTA and the MAMP but have basically been ignored. Holy chit folks, I'm not asking for money, in fact I am trying to make it easier for you to continue to make money. Do you not understand that you are forced to turn your customers in with them standing in your shop, prior to taking possession of their trophy, not after they leave, or face fines? It kind of reminds me of extortion, but I must be the only one that sees it that way.
     
  19. damonkus

    damonkus Member

    157
    3
    i would question their authority to require you to report your customer.
    A few years ago the Ky Taxidermist association hired a lawyer for his opinion concerning several laws/regulations that directly or indirectly affected taxidermist in Ky. Below is his opinion about Ky Taxidermists obligation to report a customer that shows up at our door with an illegal animal. I think his opinion for your agency to require you to report your customers would also apply to a CWD animal.
    I would suggest your state association get a legal opinion on their requirement.

    Question 2: If someone brings the taxidermist an illegal or untagged animal and they refuse to accept the animal, can the taxidermist be prosecuted for advising the individual that it is illegal and not reporting the illegal animal or action?
    Answer 2: No, taxidermists are not required to report suspected illegal activity by third-parties. It is perfectly acceptable for a taxidermist to refuse service to any person that possesses an improperly “tagged” or completely unchecked game animal. Kentucky has no “good Samaritan” rule which requires a taxidermist to pro-actively enforce game laws through reporting. See Grimes v. Hettinger, 566 S.W.2d 769 (Ky. App. 1978) (pool owner did not owe duty to rescue girl who drowned); and Restatement 2nd of Torts § 314; and James v. Wilson, 95 S.W.3d 875, 889–890 (Ky. App. 2002) (classmates had no duty to report that shooter brought guns to school).
    On the other hand, members that are willing to provide tips to their local F&W Officers concerning potentially illegal harvests can likely forge a better working relationship with those F&W officials and reduce any hostility.
    However, taxidermists cannot assist others in violating game laws. Members should simply state that they cannot accept improperly checked/tagged animals and refuse service to that person. Under no circumstances should members advise potential customers how to circumvent game laws.
     
  20. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,880
    1,486
    MN
    damonkus, the only thing that makes these animals illegal is the fact that they were transported across state lines. These are legally harvested and registered game animals from other states, that are likely CWD negative. My whole contention is this rule is based on fear and not sound science. I cannot get one strait answer as to which scientific studies were used in making this rule change. We live in a society that boasts of innocence til proven guilty but this sure doesn't equate to anything resembling that. My job as a taxidermist is to preserve a hunter's trophy so that they can relive a moment in time for many years to come not educate or to police or turn in my customers. I don't receive any income from the state of MN. If I am aware of or suspect an animal was poached than I have 0 issues with calling the authorities but to be expected to do it with legally harvested game is just ridiculous and detrimental to my business and lively-hood.
    I don't know what, if anything the state association is doing to dispute this. I am not kept in the loop, as I am not a current member, but have reached out to them and received the typical answer "We don't like it or agree with it but what can we do"?