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Oldshaver need your help

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Wild zone, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    I have a question for old shaver . I have "studied" the archives from 2016 back to 2005 and have learned much from each of you . I am in the process of mounting my first deer . I have already bought supplies and just my luck , the first one is an IFFIE cape . It's not slipping as of yet but the hunter "rode" it around in the back of his truck a few days and it makes me nervous !! I remember reading where Oldshaver said on an IFFIE cape to add alum in the pickle to set the hair . I can't find this as I have searched , so I joined your forum so I could ask him this question . What is this formula please and I have already bought TRUEBOND 1000 to use for the tan .. I would also like to say hello to you all . Including Oldshaver , cyclone, houndoggy, sorry about a Glen , hogheaven , George , mr brown from Texas , uncle joe sorry can't remember your name right off but you always say that you miss your old friend Glen. So hi to you and all the good people on this net !!
     
  2. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Many folks on here that tan with alum on a regular basis could better serve your question. I don't remember any "formula " I ever recommended for alum? Might have though? Anyone else feel free to jump in. Won't step on my toes! LOL
    I don't see how it would hurt to add a few ounces of alum to every gallon of pickle.
    "Tazzymoto " as he is known on here, sells his own mixture of premium tanning crystals that I have heard works great with Trubond. Great combination tannage.
    Helping Hand Hangers/ 269-948-2246 -Steve
     

  3. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    Thanks Oldshaver , I'm not wanting to tan with alum . I am intending to tan with truebond 1000 I have already bought it . what I am trying to ask is , using a citrus acid pickle, and an IFFIE cape, how much alum do I need to add per gallon inorder to help make sure the hair is set ? I went ahead and used stop rot on the ears nose eyes and face lips etc but would like to make sure that i have done all possible to help this cape . I have took a pile of notes from reading y'all comments and thought that I had keep up with this but I must have let it get by . I can't find it in the search either .. I feel that I know all of y'all and really appreciate all . Bruce and many more included
     
  4. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    I understood what you wanted.
    I would guess 3oz per gallon of pickle for what you want.
    I got side tracked on the combo tan thing because once you add alum to your pickle, you are dabbling in that area.
    Hope your cape does ok! You chose a great tan!
     
  5. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    Thank you Sir , I have spent many hours studying this forum on tanning and I am pretty well convinced that you are right . I have much confidence in this tan . All of the questions that Houndoggy had ask when getting away from DP was a tremendous help to me. But I will also say , their are several other tans that seem ok too. If this cape doesn't turn out it sure won't be Trubond's fault , and I am trying to make sure that I am doing my part as well . Thanks again to all , PS LOW T I want to add your name to the list as I couldn't remember it earlier . There are so many more people here that I have learned from as well Thank you all . This should take care of me for now and hopefully I have taken enough notes that I wont have to bother y'all many times in the future . God Bless and Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !!
     
  6. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    I, too, have read that alum can be used as a pickle that has real good hair setting abilities. When you tan it, the tan will replace the alum. I have never planned to use it, so I didn't commit it to memory.
     
  7. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Tanglewood, I don't know if I would agree with the word "replace" in this instance. I would use the word "bond".
     
  8. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    Actually, what I read was that the alum has a weak bond to the skin and can be washed out, where as a syn-tan has a strong bond and the tanning procedure weakens the bond of the alum to the point that it releases it's bond and the syn-tan will bond in it's place. I don't know the validity of what I read as I never tried it, however, even though I don't remember the names of the individuals who wrote this, I do remember that they were respected, experienced tanners.
     
  9. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    I want to thank you also Tanglewood as your post have also helped me tremendously !! God Bless you all !!
     
  10. I use 1/2 lb per gallon of my pickling solution
     
  11. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    Thanks silverwings , do you also use trubond for your tan ?
     
  12. Yes and No, I use Truebond or EZ tan afterwards. Good luck, John
     
  13. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Tangle wood, I have to respectfully disagree.


    Revised: To each their own! Everyone's is entitled to their own opinion.
     
  14. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    I want to thank y'all for responding and helping me . It was certainly not my intent or in my wildest imagination to cause any kind of disagreement or contrtversity as I have GREAT respect for you both, especially on my first posted question , but there again that is how we all learn ? I was thinking after reading tanglewoods comment and yours Oldshaver, that I am that I am in a win , win. Situation . If the alum will help set the hair in the pickle , that is a winner and great aid in my particular situation . And I was thinking if Tanglewood is right then so be it , the hair will already be set and the alum will unbound and the good trubond will do its job and all of GREAT!! Then when Oldshaver came back and respectfully disagreed with Tanglewood about the alum washing out, but would instead ,"bond" with trubond (at least that's the way I'm undertstansing it Oldshaver) then that will be a double bonus for me because I will have even more security of a great tan and "hopefully" no slippage .. ?
    Again I thank all who have responded .. Thanks my name is Phillip Hall ..
     
  15. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    oldshaver, not trying to argue and wasn't trying to say you are not a qualified professional at all. I was just saying that my statement wasn't something I thought up, but was from professional sources. I'm well aware that you did invent one of the best tans on the market.

    I wish to learn more, not debate a thing. My question is, if an alum molecule is bonded to a place in the skin, how does a syntan also bond to that same spot? Does it bond to the alum which is bonded to the skin or does it change the chemical composition so that both can bond to the same place in the skin Or can two different molecules of different compositions exist bonded to the same place? I honestly don't want to ruffle your feathers, I just want to learn more about this.
     
  16. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Sorry Tanglewood. I guess I did come off like a p-rick. It is ALL GOOD Wild Zone! PLEASE keep asking questions! Someone on here will come up with the right answer!

    I was always taught that they "stack", like adding bricks to a wall. The alum being cationic, and the syntan being anionic(in very simple terms). Combination tannages are very common through out the leather industry, and are taking root with some Taxidermists.

    I could very well be wrong. It wont be the first or last time!
     
  17. Wild zone

    Wild zone New Member

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    Thank you , Oldshaver . I feel very privledged and honored to ask and receive good information from ya'll. It is a privilege to have the access to so many knodlegeable experts, tanners and inventers as yourself, Bruce , Tom and many others . some of the worlds greatest taxidermist such as George and many others . and world class taxidermy judges such as Frank and others . A great place to learn ... Thank you all !!
     
  18. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    I knew that tanneries sometimes use more than one tannage, but didn't know how it worked. Thanks for the explanation.
     
  19. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    The alum and syntans are not competing for the same bonding sites. I'll have to do further study but one may be attacking hydroxyl sites while the other directly attaches to amines. Crosslinking is occuring here, not between tanning agents but between individual collagen strands.
     
  20. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Cyclone, I love the fact that you DONT need to use Wikipedia when talking about this stuff! LOL

    Heck, I feel guilty about not donating to their annual fund drive they have this time of year. :-[

    It would blow many minds on here if they knew what you do for a living. 8)