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Krowtan

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by RichMO, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Olds haver if u neutralize a deer head properly with baking soda coming out of krotan u get that same funny spongy feeling. Or at least i do and that's what it is supposed 2 do IF one follows directions.
    Xtreme Wildlife Taxidermy
     
  2. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    So.. if I take a krowtanned deer cape and brush on Pro-1 oil will it work and make it better with more stretch and easier to mount with less shrinking?


    Yes it will work fine. I know many very well know taxidermists that krowtan, then use a rub on tan afterwards. This is just another reason why many say it's still a pickle and not a true tan.
     

  3. Merc110

    Merc110 New Member

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    I am in the process of using Krowtann on a couple squirrel pelts for mounting. How does it do on thinner skins such as these? Thanks for any input.
     
  4. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Merc it has a place here in taxidermy so use it if you want it'll work for you.

    The reason it's argued is some folks call it a tan and those who know what a true tan is and the chemical change it does consider it something else. One gentlemen here I believe was in on helping making the product and knows that it isn't a tan.

    It's up to use to use what you want to do and use. Personally I tan by doing all the proper steps.
     
  5. Merc110

    Merc110 New Member

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    I finished my squirrel pelts with it yesterday and I gotta say it did a good job. Nice white color, soft and stretchy.
     
  6. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    In a technical sense, theres differences. Salt levels, tan to pH level compatibility, stuff like that. Thats really something thats not as debateable, it is what it is. Thats why the true tannery experts here say what they do...and theyre correct. But, talking application, it can stabilize the skin and do what many of us want. And by adding other product as a back up or finish, additional results can be achieved. Now on to preference, THATS the most debateable part. And theres obviously many opinions, none are really wrong. Using me as an example, as I stated days ago, this method isnt for me with most medium skins or heavier. I do like it, in a modified application, for very thin skinned, slippage prone specimens.

    I kinda sum it up this way, to both extreme of this debate. To the begiiner or "feel it-it feels like its tanned" people...put a raw skin in a salt saturate for two days, then as it dries keep stretching and working it, pulling off the layers that separate until it dries. THAT feels like leather too, doesnt it?

    To the expert tanner, I dont wanna boil test ANY of my tanned skins, but if I get stretch, memory, low shrinkage, color retention, its stable and will last longer than me...then Id say I win, right?
     
  7. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    I finished out pieces of deer skin as an experiment. One was EZ tan100, one was Liqua tanned, one was pickled only, and one was an untreated, unsalted, fleshed, thinned and heavily worked as it dried raw skin. The result was... no one can tell the difference in any of them. If a DP'd skin makes a nice mountable, long lasting mount, and it has been shown that it can, then everything else beyond that is just preference. I prefer a tanned cape because I just like the feel when I'm mounting it.
     
  8. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I get your point, but there is a difference. Only the feelers will not know. Soak all of those up and apply them to taxidermy practice, THEN youll have some better than others.
     
  9. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    Ya, other than the EZ 100 and Liqua tan deer skin pieces, the others would not make a good taxidermy skin. I did those more to show how you can think you have a tan when you really don't. I bet there are hundreds of mounts out there that the taxidermist thought they tanned the skin when they only basically pickled it.
     
  10. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Ill bet youre right!
     
  11. boarhunter67

    boarhunter67 Well-Known Member

    Rich a lot of people of had really good luck with Keowtann and some people haven't like it as much. My experiences I had to use a lot more baking soda and neutralize it longer than it calls for and oil it but then it stretched out fine. I've used a lot of products and preferred pro one oil but I know some top taxidermists who use it for all their hides and love it. I still use it for some animals especially if I think their iffy because it is in my opinion the best tan for any hide that's iffy.
     
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    SSDD

    DPrice is now and always has been correct. SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO I argued the same point and detailed how Krowtan is the exact same thing taxidermists used in the 1900's. Back then it was called a "pickle tan". Alum is the major ingredient and alum literally pickles a hide much like it would a cucumber or a jalapena. Anyone using Krowtan and lists themselves as a "tanner" is stretching the point (though there is no correct definition).

    The unique thing about Krowtann IS the lack of oils in the formula. All other "paint on tans" have some sort of lanolin or water soluble oil mixed in. The old JRTS would actually separate if stored over a few days and would require agitation.
     
  13. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    I am not going into further debate but in Rick Carter's A-Z DVD he calls Krowtann a tan, not a pickle. I am not going to stir the pot as to which it is because it really does not matter to me. I tried it once upon a time.

    If I remember correctly, Krowtann also separated and had to be shaken as well. I wish they still had the original JRTS brush on formula tan. I liked that stuff! I have tried others and the only one that came close (in my opinion) was the Headquarters brush on.
     
  14. boarhunter67

    boarhunter67 Well-Known Member

    Also not trying to stir the pot because I don't have a pony in this race. I send some stuff to the tannery, I have used JRTS, I have used McKenzie Tan, I have used Pro-1 which is my favorite, I have used Krowtann. When I used to use formic acid, I would sometimes have scraps that weren't tanned as well as some I completed the tanning process on and cut off. I also had scraps from when I would krowtann. If krowtann were simply a pickle, would it not be the same color and texture as the hide that came out of the formic acid instead of turning white like the tanned hide? Would it not feel more like rawhide like the hide pickled in formic but not yet tanned, instead of like the tanned hide? Secondly, I was told by someone who uses krowtann all the time for nearly everything, and who has spoken to the company that it's not just pickle, but that it has tanning oil in it. Like I said, it doesn't matter to me. They all produce a mountable product and everyone has their favorite.
     
  15. whitetails and fish only

    whitetails and fish only Well-Known Member

    A while back I mounted up a few deer feet using krowtann. Just to experiment, I rubbed some oil from an old bottle of liqua-soft into the excess skin trimmed from the legs. As the skins were drying I worked them across the corner of the workbench and then let them dry. To my surprise they turned out rather soft and leather like with only a small amount of working. I know that deer legs are thin skinned but it made me think that with enough work, any skin could be turned into fairly soft leather. Just my two cents on the subject. P.S. I started using it because Rick Carter recommended it in his dvd.
     
  16. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member


    In an earlier post, I said that I finished out a pickled skin and it turned out looking and feeling like a tanned skin. Soft, white and stretchy like the tanned one. All my pickled skins are fairly white. Also when I used Lutan F and followed the incorrect instructions of neutralizing before tanning, those came out white and looked and felt like a tanned skin.
     
  17. Rick Carter

    Rick Carter Administrator

    You can lead a horse to water.... I give up.
     
  18. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    Please don't misunderstand my point as it was not intended to argue if Krowtan is a tan or not, just simply that people come on here and say that their skin must be tanned because it is bright white and soft and stretchy. My point was that I can get a bright white, soft and stretchy hide from a pickled only hide, so those three things are not necessarily indicators that a hide has been tanned. I have no idea if Krowtan actually tans a hide or not and it doesn't matter to me if it does or not.
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    The late great Glen Conley said it best: THERE IS NO REAL DEFINITION OF "TANNED HIDE" AVAILABLE. I grew up in an era when sulfuric acid was diluted in a porcelein lined bathtub and the hide was "pickled". Then it was put into an alum bath for "tanning". Doesn't get much simpler for submersion tans. But taxidermists needed to sound important and educated so they came up with other ways of skinning the same cat. You know if you dipped a deer hide in arsenic, it would last longer than any of the tanned items out there. Arsenic is the "perfect preservative". NOTHING survives in arsenic. Abraham Lincoln was embalmed in it and when he was disinterred a few years back, viewers claimed to have been shocked that his appearance seemed as if he'd only died the day before.
     
  20. Krowtann isn't bad if you use it correctly. I remove all large chunks of meet and fat turn ears, eyes, nose, lips. 64 oz salt 8 oz krowtann 2.5 gallons of water mixed up, soak it in that 3-4 days. Rinse in water, Neutralize 15 minutes with 2.5 gallons of water to 11 oz of baking soda. Keep it agitated the 15 minutes it's in the bath,(SHAVE or THIN your cape), wash in tide detergent, rinse well, roll it dry in towels wash in pert plus shampoo.. Rinse well let it drip dry 2 hours. Then from the ear butts to the top of the brisket I put a good coat of krowoil keep it skin to skin rolled up in a bag in the fridge over night ready to mount with 2-3 inches plus of stretch. If you don't neutralize it correctly or shave your skin thin enough no you won't get your stretch back.