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brisket area slipping...

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by clovis67, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. clovis67

    clovis67 New Member

    Been having problems with slipping after I tan and neutralize deer hide.Used Krowtan and the slipping is occurring in just the brisket area...anyone have any suggestions?
  2. Bruce_Rittel

    Bruce_Rittel Consultant Services

    Sometimes if you wash the Cape prior to mounting it - the usually Alkaline Detergent if you do not rinse it well, migrates as it dries to the brisket area of the cape. Could this be a problem? It can cause slipping - the alkaline product will weaken the epidermal area.

  3. clovis67

    clovis67 New Member

    I have been washing the hides after neutralizing in liquid Tide with a small amount of relaxer added before final shaving.You think I need to stop using soap when I wash the hides?
  4. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Give us a bit more on how your tanning chemicals, steps etc. Just the way your saying here doesn't sound right neutralizing in tide?
    I use tide all the time and I have no issues so lets look into other reasons.
  5. clovis67

    clovis67 New Member

    Sorry for the poor sentence structure...what I meant to say was that I neutralized the hides in baking soda and water for 15 minutes...then I washed the hides in cool water with liquid tide.I then rinsed the hides in cool water and hang them up to drip off.
    I have been following the instructions on Krowtann ...after I rough flesh the hides with a pressure washer.Hope I am making sense this time.
  6. Whitetail906

    Whitetail906 New Member

    Are you salting your capes prior to tanning? If not, that could be the problem. I always salt my hides for 24 hours prior to tanning. Turning them over and putting a fresh coat of salt after about 12 hours.

    Are you using baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate? If using baking soda you should double the amount for the neutralizing process.

  7. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Why would you double the amount? Baking soda and sodium bicarbonate are one and the same. Read a box of baking soda..
  8. clovis67

    clovis67 New Member

    I don't salt the deer skin prior to tanning.I turn the ears, lips,eyes,nose,etc..then rough flesh w pressure washer and work on the face w a knife.Next I mix the Krowtan salt and water recipe by the instructions and leave skins in Krowtann for at least 4 days.Then I take skins out and neutralize for 15 minutes in the baking soda and water recipe..this is where I usually mix in a small amount of liquid tide..Then I proceed to shave hide and finish flesh the face.
  9. big dan

    big dan Member

    Are you sure it's slippage and not false cuts? The briscuit is a common spot for overshaving creating false cuts.
  10. Whitetail906

    Whitetail906 New Member

    Cyclone, I'm just going off the commonly asked questions on Krowtann 2000 & Special Whitetail Formula.
    Question 10. Can I use baking soda instead of sodium bicarbonate? Yes, but use twice the prescribed amount.

    I guess you should ask that of Ozark Woods 1-870-743-6555

    His original question was specifically in regards to Krowtann. So I looked at their instruction sheet.

    However I do know baking soda and sodium Bicarbonate are one of the same. I minored in chemistry.

    But thank you for calling me out on that.

  11. Whitetail906

    Whitetail906 New Member

    I would highly recommend you salt your hides. When I first started I used Krowtann and skipped that step. I had many hides that had small areas that had slipped. Especially being new at it, your working time turning and splitting is much longer. Room temp will also increase that chance if your shop is warm. Once I started salting the capes prior to tanning ive had hardly any issues. If I do it's usually because of an "iffy" cape.

    I'm far from an expert, and there are guys/gals with much more experience than me. I think most would agree that salting isn't something you should skip. I could be wrong though!

  12. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate...and I have told Ozark Woods and many others. You're welcome.
  13. Whitetail906

    Whitetail906 New Member

    Maybe you should try talking to them again.... except this time you might want to leave your ego at home!

  14. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Ok guys, cant we just say opps, I goofed, and let it be? If you offer to help someone and make a statement thats not accurate, of course someone else will correct it. Its ok, its the right direction to go, and we are all better for it. I know "cyclone" well, well enough to know his comment was there to correct, not ridicule. Please, for these message boards to work well, we need to treat each other as though we were talking in person.

    Back to the topic, twice the guy mentioned adding tide or relaxer to his neutralizing bath. Will someone please walk him through that? Maybe tell him to quickly rough flesh, salt overnight, wash it quickly with tide, drain well, spinning is best, and get it into the krowtan, shave it good, back into the krowtan, and when he neutralizes, dont add anything else? That might be a good thing to tell him...but dont say I said anything...wink.
  15. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    My directions say to wash the cape in Tide AFTER you neutralize, not while you neutralize.
  16. Genie

    Genie Member

    I have not had any problems with Krowtann and hope I don't. Following the directions was a bit tricky cuz I wondered about that baking soda/sodium bicarbonate dilemma as well. I do use Arm & Hammer and double the amount as instructed. I remove the cape, pat a small section dry and check the pH (on the skin side) just to be sure it has been neutralized. I often find that neutralization takes about twice as long as the instructions suggest.
    Krowtann also wants you to measure out salt and sodium bicarbonate using FLUID ounces. Even though it's more convenient than weighing out quantities I had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around that.
    The directions do not suggest a need to salt the cape before soaking but that be a point to "salt away" for future reference.
    The Krowtann directions do offer suggestions on how to deal with slipping. Might help?

    The hair is slipping: you probably had a bad skin to start with, you have over neutralized the skin or have not used the correct amount of salt.
    Mount the skin ASAP trying not to tug or pull on the slipping area. You can apply de-natured alcohol to the affected area. When the skin is dry it
    should set the hair. Using Krowtann, slipping should not be a problem.