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Capes slipping after rinse stage

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by bluff top taxidermy, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. Using the trubond method, and capes are always good until i rinse then 30 minutes later they slip. Ph is normal for tap water and i just rinse in plain water, then spin in the washer, then even roll in towels for 10 minutes and will slip everytime after that. Even with a tannery tanned cape if i rehydrate a wet tanned cape it will often times start to slip as well but not everytime. Any ideas on what could be causing this? I use cold water also to be safe . tanned some for a friend of mine and just freeze with the tan on and let him rinse and he has no problems with them the last 40 that ive done for him. No slipping in the pickle and no slipping while the tan is setting in then after rinsing all hell breaks loose
     
  2. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Your issues are more than likely starting to occur long before your rinse step. You need to provide a detailed method that you follow so that we may troubleshoot it for you.
     

  3. Flesh and salt, either let hang 24 hrs or let dry stiff. Rehydrate and wash then let drip for 20 minutes, put in pickle and maintain a 1.5 to 2.0 ph , pickle 48 hrs then shave, next day shave again, then i rinse quick and put in the neutralizing bath, 4 gallons, 1# of salt and believe 4tbs of baking soda ( not home but whatever the directions say) let sit in there and agitate for about 40 minutes, rinse again quick in cold water then spin in washer and then wrap in towels, everything still looks great at this point, then i apply the brush on tan and let sit for a couole hours then i hang for while or over night to let it drip, to this point no hair is slipping or anything.... If i rinse then freeze ill lose every single cape at this point, if i freeze with tan on, then thaw.... Prep then rinse sometimes i can save a few before they slip. Basically follow the directions exactly what they say, ive tried citric acid and no harm with the same results but either way no slipping until after i rinse, then the hair starts to look like it got electricuted and hundreds of hairs pop up and pull out with ease the longer it sits and big spots of slipping here and there as well
     
  4. I would stop rinsing so much. Have you tried prepping and mounting without rinsing?
     
  5. I used to never rinse then was told that was prolly the problem, said if i didnt rinse after the pickle that it would continue to work as a pickle in some way, tried rinsing and getting the same results. Yet when my buddy rinses the tan off his capes that i tanned for him and he has no issues?
     
  6. Have you tested your water? Do you have city water? Another thing to consider is sterilizing your tanning equipment.
     
  7. Have well water, with a ph of about 7 which i was told is normal. Always sterilize everything and especially this last batch i did everything was sterilized twice before working
     
  8. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    5,665
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    Is it not important to put it back into pickle after shaving? I always return capes or skins back to the pickle for at least a day after I shave or degrease. I then pull them out and move onto neutralizing.
     
  9. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Tazzymoto mentioned this. Why wash after the rehydration? What are you rehydrating with? 1/4 salt per gal in rehydration?
    Are your capes "t" cut or short incision ? If so, you need plenty of air circulating through the hair inside the "tube".
    After applying the tan, water will "weep" from the skin.. If the inside of a T cut stays wet(hair side)and has no air circulation, it can easily slip. Same thing with cased legs.
     
  10. 3 bears yes i pickle for 48 then shave then come back next day and shave again then do everything else. I rinse after rehydration to get all the blood out and off of the hair before the pickle. I do the short incision , and like you had mentioned i turned inside out back and forth every couple hours so skin can get air and also the hair can as well, and yes,about a 1/4 per gallon
     
  11. Bruce_Rittel

    Bruce_Rittel Consultant Services

    I noticed you said you rinse and then ROLL up the capes or skins in a Towel to set them aside. I wouldn't Roll anything in Tanning. If you rinsed them the excess Rinse Water has no place to drain away to - except maybe stay in the hair and maybe weaken the epidermis (causing slippage). FOLD, FOLD, FOLD - if you are rinsing and then want the pieces to safely DRAIN!!
     
  12. Directions say to wrap in towel, most people that i know do it that way as well, me personally i spin in the washer which gets majority of the water out, then i wrap in towels for about 10 minutes, i do that during the neutralizing/tanning process then again when i do my final rinse before mounting?
     
  13. Keith

    Keith Well-Known Member

    40 minutes, imo, is a long time in a neutralizer.

    Like others stated, quite rinsing so much.
     
  14. Ive tried 20, 30, and 40 minute neutralizing baths with the same results. Another thing i have noticed is that my early season sept. Capes dont slip, its only the october and on longer hair capes that do?
     
  15. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    The original directions I wrote for Trubond said nothing about a towel. Just FYI Ever wash them towels? LOL

    We have been pm..in on this problem for a while.

    The short hairs don't hold water like the long hairs. The type of tan I used in this product works best when throughly neutralized. Up to an hour wouldn't hurt. For those that don't know, I formulated this product. By now, it has been used to tan thousands, upon thousands of skins, perfectly, with no issues.

    Just like most tans, short cuts are often added. The owner has a GREAT DEAL OF TANNING EXPERIENCE, and he decided to change the origional instructions.

    My ORIGIONAL INSTRUCTIONS were this. After neutralization, and after applying the tan, let the tan soak in for a couple of hours. Here is where the short cut was added........ NOW, Hang the skin up to dry overnight under a fan or something similar. Next AM, after drying, WASH THE CAPE IN A SOLUTION OF 1/4 lb salt per gal of warm water, with some dawn or degrease. After complete wash, and the ear butts are soft again, pull skin and drain. Freeze NOW, or mount.

    Straight to the freezer after applying the tan , and letting it soak, was something someone else added later. They had good luck with that method, and I guess so did others.

    If you use the method I just suggested here, you won't have any problems, EVER! I chose this method to make it "error proof". This type of tan actually "pushes water" from the collagen matrix. It's important to let it have time to work before freezing. It drips for hours! All the pm's we traded, and I always thought you were doing this, or I would have suggested it sooner.
     
  16. Correct aubrey, i took your advice for trouble shooting this problem and tanned mid day then few hours later hung up to drip dry after tanned like you said to try, unfortunately the same problem occured after i rinsed. Really do appreciate you trying to diagnose the problem! Unless im still doing something wrong somewhere
     
  17. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    You didn't answer my question about those towels. Have you ever washed them? Ever notice how wet towels start to stink....? There is a reason for that. Just checking. Little update here.Do you have a website? I got my first email from you on 5/8/2017.

    1. 5/8/17 - "half my deer slip after neutralizing. Hundreds of hairs curl up and fall out w/ease"
    2. 5/9/17- "Letting it soak for a few hours, then bagging and freezing-washing just before mounting-been using safte acid- tried citric"
    3. 5/15/17- " checked water pH with 1 tbs bicarbonate pH was 7.5-8.0
    4. 5/15/17- " still slipping after neutralizing- painting on tan, letting it soak for a few hours on a pallet" towels still used
    No further contact until August 28, might have talked by phone once? Talk to too many to remember?
    8/28/17- " I narrowed my problem down to the rinse,had no issues with buddies capes- seemed everything went to hell after wrapping in towel. FIRST TIME "that you have waited 12-16 hours for tan to dry" here.

    Everyone is welcome to keep guessing! I'm pretty positive that just about anything you can think of asking, I have already asked him(or her). But hey, never hurts to try. Did it dry "hair side out"?

    Is your freezer freezing GOOD! Those towels seem to be a reoccurring factor in this whole thing also? If you keep using those same towels, throw them away. Also, in ALL THE PM's we have exchanged, it has never been mentioned about cleaning EVERY SINGLE THING with a weak Clorox solution. Ever cleaned out your freezer? Has it thawed in the last few months?

    I have already covered all the pH questions,salt content of solutions, plastic bags,sitting in water, etc... You have to find the bacteria source! If someone can guess the source of bacteria entry into the process, in this situation, problem will be solved.

    As I ALWAYS tell everyone, no matter what tan is used, THE TAN CAN NOT MAKE A SKIN SLIP! No matter which name is on the packaging. The pickle locks in hair, and only the entry of a bacteria source, can change that.(as long as the skin remains within the parameters of a normal tanning process)
     
  18. I wash my towels regularly and still did this with new towels. Guess i can try to just spin and then let drip dry with no towels and see? Going to try and do one using only my neighbors water as well, possibly there might be something in my water? It is well water and is slightly hard but wouldnt think it would make a difference.i pretty much just put all my capes in my 20ft walk in freezer sometimes in a chest freezer.
     
  19. Are you reusing salt? Have you tried add a bacteiriacide in the rehydration process? Also try neutralizing in steps. That may help with the hair curling. Good luck
     
  20. My guess is you are not thinning your capes enough. I see you were complaining about lack of stretch too. Plus what everyone else is saying. If I were you I would start sending to a good tannery like Carolina Fur dressiing until you get the tanning figured out, by using your own hides or extras
    I have only used one gallon of Truebond and the one thing that impressed me was the stretch.