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Swimming alligator, GLOSS or NOT

Discussion in 'Reptile Taxidermy' started by david301, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Have an alligator mounted for competition. It is a swimming up pose. Do I gloss this thing or not. I think they look better glossed but for competition Im not sure about. Never done one for competition before.
     
  2. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    Well, fish are under water and those fish mounts are glossed, although a few people have been putting a matte finish on their fish mounts. Now there is an obvious difference between a gator sunning himself and looking very dull and dirty. But in the water, they are wet.

    Having judged the reptile category a couple of times at the UTA show, the gloss on a gator is not going to be a factor IMO.

    :)

    Kerby...
     

  3. Thanks Kerby. I was leaning toward gloss. Just wasnt sure about most judges opinions about it. Just out of the water they are glossy but looking at them under water not so much. So i guess I will treat it like a fish. So would you go with a thicker auto gloss like a fish or a thinner gloss coating.
     
  4. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    I am not a fan of the thick auto gloss - just me though. I would go with just a regular gloss that you use on fish. Make sure that it is applied evenly and no runs, etc.

    :)

    Kerby...
     
  5. JL

    JL Taxidermist for 64 years

    I'm with Kerby
     
  6. Chrisso222

    Chrisso222 New Member

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    Hi guys im new to taxidermy what are the less toxic chemicals to preserve gator or croc skulls with the skin on tia regards chris
     
  7. jemmick

    jemmick Active Member

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    My thoughts are if an object ( fish,gator , driftwood , rock etc.)is underwater it can't be glossy, as in order to be glossy it will reflect light and things underwater can not reflect light . This used to be a no-no w/ judges from 20- 30 years ago. I had gotten hit by a judge in that respect. Now if you ask about customers , my experience is that 95% or more want glass (more the better) IMHO, Just my thoughts and 50 yrs experience.
     
  8. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    If a fish is under water it needs light to reflect color ..... so we shouldn't be painting fish?

    :)

    Kerby...
     
  9. jemmick

    jemmick Active Member

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    Ow, But if I am underwater and look at a fish I see color Buttttt do I not see a glossy finish. If I look in to the water I can see the color of a fish on my line but do not see shine till I take the fish out of water. I have studied many fish in and out of water , MAYBE I missed something . Anyone else wish to join in.??!!
     
  10. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    ***it will reflect light and things underwater can not reflect light***

    Fish under water have NO COLOR .... unless you have light. If you can see a fish in clear water then yes, there is color because the sun is shining on it. In not so clear water, what does the fish look like? In real muddy water what does the fish look like? Color needs light, just saying. I am not saying you are wrong about the gloss issue, I am saying that you should use the same logic with color as with gloss. Did your judge say that? I doubt it.

    Cheers

    Kerby...
     
  11. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    ****Light receptors within the eye transmit messages to the brain, which produces the familiar sensations of color. Newton observed that color is not inherent in objects. Rather, the surface of an object reflects some colors and absorbs all the others. We perceive only the reflected colors.****

    :)

    Kerby...
     
  12. jemmick

    jemmick Active Member

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    Theoretically, then I only need to portray a fish in shades of grey to properly represent a fish underwater. I haven't competed in a number of years but I don't really think that would fly. Just sayin
    Your quote says nothing about the role water plays, only our minds role in what we see generally.
     
  13. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    Exactly ... if one is going to argue what a fish looks like under water (gloss or not gloss) then you can't pick and choose what it looks like. Of course it won't fly.

    Water decreases the amount of sun LIGHT that REFLECTS off a fish. The color of a fish that we try to portray in a mount. If a fish is mounted and is supposed to be under water what color do you see? If you are going to argue that it can't have a gloss to it, then it also can't have the same color if it was out of water.

    I'm not going to try and explain it every time I make a response

    Peace out

    Kerby...
     
  14. jemmick

    jemmick Active Member

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    Exactly decreases, doesn't prohibit, thus being able to see color and not gloss . I wont't try to explain it every time I make a response. I feel we each have our opinion .Maybe mine is less educated.JMHO
     
  15. Color is light. No light is black or void of color. Our perception of color is determined by the light waves of the given color. We see it as a reflection of light. Pass that light through a prism and the light waves will be separated by the unique frequency of a given color (a rainbow is a good example). When water is brought into the equation it acts as a filter. This filter also impacts the frequency of the given color causing our perception of that color to change. There are many variables to this water filter such as suspended particles (muddy water) organic matter (green water) etc. I prefer to depict a fish that is in a foot of gin clear water. That way I can color the fish the way I see it out of the water or without a filter.

    The decision to use gloss or not is more relative to refraction. Refraction is the change in light direction and relative to the wave length of various colors. Refraction also has a big impact on the reflective properties of metallics. The thicker the gloss the larger the impact is on color. The artist should be more concerned about the effects this has on their paint work than on what the uninformed judge thinks. To gloss or not is simply too subjective a thing to make or break your piece.


    David, Use a gloss on your gator to bring out the contrast in your paint work or the skin. Keep in mind that it will also enhance the mistakes in your paint work. If you find it to be overly shiny you can always come back with a satin finish. The satin finish will still cause refraction but to a much less extent.


    -Pete
     
    Kerby Ross likes this.