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Five more Points to Ponder on Competition Fairness

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Joe Kish, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Joe Kish

    Joe Kish Well-Known Member

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    To stimulate continuing discussion on this forum, here are,

    Five more Points to Ponder on Competition Fairness

    1. Should personality awards have specific criteria or does it matter?
    2. Is it fair to allow a paid entry in one category to have eligibility in other categories without an additional entry fee?
    3. Is it fair to in-state competitors to permit nonresidents the same privileges in your state competition as residents?
    4. Would offering traveling trophies in taxidermy competitions add challenges and participation as they do in sporting and other fields?
    5. Would conservation and educational themed categories in competitions be too challenging for most competitors?
     
  2. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    1-what do you mean please elaborate?
    2-Do all comps, make you declare what awards you are going for?
    3-yes
    4-not sure it would add much for participation but, it is kind of fun idea and works but, only if people return and participate in consecutive years.
    5- again please elaborate.
     

  3. Joe Kish

    Joe Kish Well-Known Member

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    1. Awards named after people, Akeley award being the best known. Also Henry Inchumuk, Joseph Bruchac, Brian Harness, etc.
    2. I don't know about all comps, but if you register in a game head category most are automatically eligible for personality awards, supplier awards, Taxidermist of the Year, and best of show without additional fees.
    3. Most will agree with you. I'm not one.
    4. Depending on what the rules require. In the case of winning a traveling trophy three times, one usually gets to keep it. Those who don't return to participate still get their names on the trophy but must surrender it if they don't participate any following year.
    5. Two examples of a conservation theme would be suppressing introduced species, and giving wildlife a break on highways. Two examples of education themes could be step by step in how to mount a bird, (or whatever,) and symbiosis between different species.
     
  4. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I'm struggling to see your point, as usual.

    1) To my knowledge, most if not all do have specific criteria.
    2) Elaborate. What could be entered in multiple categories?
    3) Of course, why wouldn't it be?
    4) Many shows have traveling trophies.
    5) If you are referring to the strange proposal you had a year or two ago in TX, my answer is this: It isn't that it's too challenging, it's just not interesting or appealing to the majority of us in the industry.
     
    Kerby Ross likes this.
  5. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks Joe
    1-no, those folks you listed were good at what they did and that is what I think the awards are for, to acknowledge that you are good at what you did and are in good company.
    2-yes, those awards are like bonuses for doing good work.
    3-I still say yes. I can say that the fact that I wasn't required to join the Iowa Assoc. did in fact appeal to me. I supported them with my entrance fees, that should be enough to cover it, for out of staters. I guess they could give members a slight discount but that may piss folks off as well. Because of the distance and travel logistics, I for one did not utilize the supplier discount to the extent I would likely would in my own state.
    4-Yep it works and is fun to compete in such a thing but I have had an issue getting a traveling trophy back, in another form of competition, finally had to purchase a new one for the new winner.
    5- I don't see a reason for a separate category, I don't feel it would draw a big group of competitors. If you feel the need to educate the public with your craft, just do it.
     
  6. fishmaster

    fishmaster Well-Known Member

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    1 . That's up to the state or show but the awards that are given by a business should have some $ attached. A recent show I attended spent an hour giving away all the individual awards. I really think every state should wipe the slate clean and start over because it becomes exhausting to sit thru. Some are worthy, some are frivolous and only given to shine a momentary light on a supplier. The only reason I said to attach some $ to is to weed out the frivolous ones. Most are, and the poor judges spend a lot of time sorting all this stuff out after they are already exhausted.
    Certain awards like the WASCO are very sought after because it is for the most artistic piece in the entire show. Thats kind of a big deal.
    2 If you pay for an entry it should be eligible for any awards available including best of show.
    3 Out of state competitors have been helpful to most state shows. Every state has experienced a year where out of state people have cleaned house though. It hurts but it's a reminder for people to get their but in gear. Iowa had people from 10 states compete . How can that possibly be a bad thing. New people, new friendships, new methods shared etc.
    4 Missouri had a lot of fun with Colorado with traveling trophies and people going back and forth between our two shows. It was all good and good fun back in the day.
    5. I'm not 100% sure of what you are suggesting but I don't see it getting purchase.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  7. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    1. Doesn't matter

    2. Yes, start charging people more and more and they will stop coming. Another kish suggestion that will harm conventions and competitions.

    3. Yes , what possible difference does it make where you live, we are all taxidermists and industry peers. Great idea lets limit what non-residents can do at our conventions and charge them more another kish idea that will destroy state conventions.

    4. Traveling trophies would not add participation

    5. Nothing is too challenging for today's taxidermists, there would be no interest, there's enough categories as is.
     
    Kerby Ross and DL like this.
  8. wa

    wa Thanks John...this depicts me better

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    How does everyone feel about very old World show 1st place mounts that have already made the rounds to other states and
    National shows coming in and competing ?
     
  9. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    In Texas we allow any mount that hasn’t shown at Texas before, bring em all we want the best taxidermists and the best work out there in our competition room , old or new.
    Our boards thoughts are whether it shows before or after worlds is irrelavent , it’s the same mount.
     
  10. wa

    wa Thanks John...this depicts me better

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    Same mount with a World title and a B O C
    Is not the same mount anymore
     
    artwildcreate likes this.
  11. H
    #5. Hmmm. No introduced species? So pheasants are out?
     
  12. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    wa, I understand where you're coming from, but I tend to agree with Jerry. Fortunately, here in MO we have the same rules as TX, as long as it hasn't been competed with before (in MO), any mount is eligible. I think it's great when a world show winner shows up at our show. I think it's even better if more than one do. I've been to a lot of shows over the years, and seen it done several ways. I'll say this, associations with the attitude of keeping the awards in their state by restricting out of state competitors, and not allowing older competition pieces or pieces that were competed with at the WTC, are struggling. Their numbers are dropping, as is the quality of the work in their showroom. Shows that welcome out of state competitors, older mounts, and WTC entries are for the most part prospering. It raises everyone's game. If I know someone from out of state is bringing their best mount, it makes me work that much harder on mine. Everyone gets better, the showroom is full of quality pieces, and more money is generated for the association that can be used for educating it's members throughout the year.
     
  13. Jerry Huffaker

    Jerry Huffaker Well-Known Member

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    An example of what can happen is the 2017 best in world large mammal was taken to nationals after worlds, it blued but didn’t win it’s division. At that particular show there was a better mount there. Anything can happen every show is different. I personally would never take a best in world piece anywhere else after worlds, but that’s just me. I have no problem with anyone else doing it. Why wouldn’t a true competitor want to see how his work would stack up next to the very best pieces of all time?
    Coles facts about state shows are 100%correct.
     
    Kerby Ross likes this.
  14. wa

    wa Thanks John...this depicts me better

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    I'm all for it bring the best and everyone welcome!
    just saying
     
    Cole, Jerry Huffaker and Steven Klee like this.
  15. BrookeSFD16

    BrookeSFD16 Well-Known Member

    I'll chime in here. Not necessarily on Mr. Kishs points, but we (Randy and I) go to several shows every year. At each and every one we have picked up information worth every penny of the costs of the show. If it were the same people at every show, and out of state folks weren't welcome then I don't see that much learning going on. You never know how another Taxidermist does something unless you go to thier shop and pay them (usually) for training. To be able to watch, talk, ask questions of 40-50 different Taxidermists in one weekend.....priceless.

    Plus if you get to actually see, up close, a piece that has won a world show and talk to they guy that did it..that should be a great experience especially if you didn't get to go.
     
  16. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

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    The answer to all your questions really is - it depends.

    States Rules are liquid and are developed by trial and error of what works for them. If you don't like the way things are get involved. However, understand that just getting involved doesn't guarantee you will get what you want you want because it is a group effort. You need to have intelligence, passion, and the ability to lead. I find very few have the stomach or political ability to do so. Showing up after the party and acting like a tool won't change anything.
     
    AFTHUNT and BrookeSFD16 like this.
  17. Megan :)

    Megan :) Well-Known Member

    As someone with no competition experience so far, please feel free to disregard my opinion, which is only going to be voiced as to #3.
    When I get the $$$ to travel, PLEASE let me compete! The more the merrier, no? It brings a (potentially) larger group together for more knowledge sharing seems like a win. I don't want to feel "unwelcome", I want to meet new people and learn!
    Again, just my 2 cents...