1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

3rd Duck - Please Critique

Discussion in 'Beginners' started by KennethShane, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. 24702D1F-BA2A-4C23-80DD-D95B085D7AB3.jpeg 8C6C4633-D059-4E40-91E2-8C3BFE6B5173.jpeg I was able to mount my 3rd duck this evening. I posted the first two in this thread and got some amazing feedback. Hoping to get similar results here. Please feel free to speak your mind, I won’t take offense. Thanks in advance!

    Ps. Sorry for the messy background!
     
  2. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    With your attitude and willingness to learn and ability to apply it has made it obvious to me that you have what it takes to make it as a taxidermist. You seem to be improving as you continue.
     

  3. Wildthings

    Wildthings Well-Known Member

    949
    544
    Your humerus bones are still too far away from the body, (kinda like tucking your elbows into your sides) which is causing the gap between your tertials and the body. A bird would lose all the air there and would lose lift. Looking good!
     
    KennethShane and 3bears like this.
  4. BrookeSFD16

    BrookeSFD16 Well-Known Member

    What wild things said. Are you wiring into the wrist?

    Once sewed up and the bird is still on the table collapse your wings. Then once up on the stand and you are ready to do wings feel the bones from the underside. Make sure they are even. Feel the first joint(elbow) make sure they are even and also laying almost parallel to the body. There should be a slight angle to them coming away from the body at the elbow. Then grab the elbow joint and the wrist and holding the humerous in place open the elbow joint to where you want it. Then when you go to tape or clip your primaries only open them at the wrist keeping the humerous and elbow joint in place.

    You may maul up a bird or 2 but once you understand where the bones go and how the joints open you have to be feeling it up and messing up feathers.
     
    Wildthings and 3bears like this.
  5. Just to make sure I am understanding, the humerous bone needs to almost run parallel with the body?
    I have not wired to the wrist. I have been drilling into the back of the ulna and running the wire inside of that, then tying the wire to the humerous
     
  6. Thank you! I appreciate that! I think it’s great that so many people are willing to help and give “free education “ on this site!
     
  7. My apologies, it sent before I was finished typing.. On this bird, both humerous bones were shot off just above the ball, so basically there was no bone to work with. I ran my wire through the ulna, then used a straw filled with hot glue to “make” the bone back. I’m sure there are better ways to deal with this, but it’s the only thing I could come up with on the fly. Lol
    Is it better to wire into the wrist as you mentioned? I will be mounting the hen this evening.. thanks for the advise!
     
  8. BrookeSFD16

    BrookeSFD16 Well-Known Member

    I wire like you did. Some people do wire to the wrist. Yes on the almost parallel. I think Breakthrough#49 has some images that David Luke did that will show you. I'll see if I can dig it up.

    The straw idea is a good one. I use old arrow shafts.
     
  9. I pulled the humerous bone up against the body as tight as I could. The tertials are still not laying up against the body like they should. This makes me think there may be more underlying issues causing this. I was able to pull them over and pin them where they should go. I know it’s tough to troubleshoot without seeing exactly what I did, but is there any common issues that might cause the tertials to not lay closer to the body?
    I almost think if I would’ve carved out the body a little where the humerous lays that it might work bc when I press the humerous against the body tight they lay pretty close to right, but the wire won’t stay that close to the body...
     
  10. Wildthings

    Wildthings Well-Known Member

    949
    544
    I'm assuming you are stripping your wings during cleaning (inverting to the wrist) instead of cutting open and cleaning. That's what I do on most of my mounts. Now when posing the birds you need to make sure the base of the tertials are pulled all the way back to where they originally came off at - right at the elbow. It's real easy to let them all kinda ride up the ulna bone toward the wrist. Keep them pulled down to the elbows. Get use to broken or no bones. Replace them with whatever!! I use 1/8" wooden dowels quite a lot along with different size wires. I usually have to card my tertials back into the correct position.

    I've always have wired into the wrist BUT since going to a seminar that Brooke and Spencer put on last spring I now don't and have been liking the outcome. Had a mallard today that both radius and ulna had to be repaired so this caused me to run the wire into the wrist and secure the wire to the ulna instead of going into the ulna
     
    KennethShane likes this.
  11.  
  12. Wildthings

    Wildthings Well-Known Member

    949
    544
    I run three pins and card my tails to them. One in the middle and two on the outside. I also pump caulk into it. Well now I pump Power Grab! Look at the left mallard I just posted. It's what I got use to doing
     
    KennethShane likes this.
  13. Tom Maul

    Tom Maul Active Member

    IF you use caulk in the wings, it will aid you greatly in getting those tertials in their proper position (as well as the secondaries) as Wildthings is suggesting. I agree with Wildthings. If your humerus is in the correct position, then the problem probably is that you're not taxing that wing skin back toward the body where it originally was. No... it won't go back where it belongs unless you pull/stretch it back there. Caulking will help it stay there. Caulk is also very advantageous for setting the tail. It is also a huge aid under the scapulars. You might be amazed at how much better your scaps will preen and stay put with a bit of caulk under them.
    Now.... there's a learning curve to using caulk and, used poorly, it can be a NIGHTMARE, but once you get a handle on it, it can be a real asset.
    If you're not using caulk and would like to try it, I highly suggest you get a good DVD on a flying waterfowl that includes using caulk before you try it. You can make a mess of things with caulk in a heartbeat if you don't understand what you're trying to accomplish.
    Tip O da Day... You'll laugh, but go to the store and buy a whole chicken. Bring that sucker home and study how those wings work without all those feathers in the way. Some light bulbs should go off. Take pics while you're doin it. Then when you're done, cook it and eat it.!
    [​IMG]
    I THINK the above pic gets credited to Nancy Crocker.
    It's amazing! and an awesome learning tool.
    In this pose the humerus is away from the body (and correctly so) and notice the tertial gap. Also, notice where every feather attaches to the wing. Notice the stretch in the flight web. Notice everything!
    BTW... nice job on the wigeon. I think you have great head/neck/body juncture and position.... not an easy thing starting out.
     
  14. BrookeSFD16

    BrookeSFD16 Well-Known Member

    Pulling the tertails back to the elbow like they said. If you are leery of caulk, wrap electrical tape around your elbow joint when you wire, then once your wing is in place, pull the tertials to the correct position and take a t-pin and pin them into the tape. Spencer 2 may chime in on this since he's the one that taught me. Also are you pinning your flight web? That needs to be done once the wing is in place. The humerous isn't tight to the body at the elbow joint..it'll angle off the body at the elbow... How much depends on pose.

    I'm gonna say that if you get your tertials in place at the elbow and your humerous is in the correct position and your tertials are still gapped, you need to open up the elbow joint, keeping the humerous in the correct position. Opening the elbow joint will "drop" the tertails toward the body.

    Best thing is as suggested. Thaw out a duck and play with it. Hold the wing in different positions and feel where the bones are, how tight the flight web is, where the feathers lay.
     
  15. Tom Maul

    Tom Maul Active Member

    The tape and T pin is a neat idea!
     
    BackCountryWings likes this.
  16. Thanks for the tips, great as usual! That’s a great picture. I do have a question... in this photo you mentioned the humerous is away from the body, which pulled the tertials away from the body. When is it ok to do this? I’ve seen mounts similar to this one, but I also get the sense that it is preferred to have them against the body. So which is correct? Or does it depend on the pose? Sorry for all the questions, I just don’t really know.
     
  17. Thanks for the pointers! I didn’t pin the flight web on the first two bc I wasn’t sure of what I was doing (still can’t say that I am, but I did watch the video Tom mentioned) so I did pin them on the wigeon. I have been caulking around the neck area, and where the humerous attaches to the body. I will have to try Toms tips for the scapulars and elbow. Thanks again!
     
  18. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    I have that naked duck pic on my wall and it was the one item that made it all come together for me. I was missing something in the feather placement and that cleared it up.
     
  19. Tom Maul

    Tom Maul Active Member

    The pose has everything to do with it, Kenneth.
    The mechanics of a bird flying is astounding and is hard to duplicate correctly without reference.
    I rely 100% on reference when I'm mounting birds.
    If I don't have a pic in front of me of the exact pose that I'm shootin for, I have one that's close.
    Go on Youtube and search Slow motion Birds in Flight UltraSlo. Watch the Canada Goose take off. See the tertial gap during takeoff? A mount pose is a snapshot in time. That's why it's so important to have a reference picture to work from.
    You can search birds flying in slow motion and see all kinds of cool flight mechanics. I have to plead ignorance on the "whys" of bird flight mechanics.... way above my pay grade.... lol.
     
  20. Tom Maul

    Tom Maul Active Member

    We think a bird flaps it's wings up and down.... nothing could be further from the truth...LOL
     
    Tanglewood Taxidermy likes this.