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How Long Can Hide Stay On Before Hair Slippage?

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Zerk, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    AMEN Sea Wolf. Zerk, you and Rausch answer me a question: When was the last time you walked into a slaughterhouse and saw a beef cow hanging with the hide on? Let me answer: NEVER! That old crap of hanging deer to "age" goes back to the Middle Ages where meat was only eaten after the bones would twist loose. Now I'm not about to wait that long. Venison is no different from any other animal. You skin it immediately so that the carcass can cool inside and out to eliminate bacteria growth under the skin. It's no damned wonder some people won't eat venison: all they ever tasted was rotten meat. Meat (I repeat, MEAT, ) should be hung SKINNED in a cool place for 2-3 days so that the meat can "relax" and to ease in the actually cutting of the meat. I don't know of a single deer processor who takes in deer and puts them in the cooler unskinned. And if I did, I'd change processors.
     
    Tanglewood Taxidermy likes this.
  2. Rausch

    Rausch Well-Known Member

    George I never one time said anything about leaving the hide on.
     

  3. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    It only takes a few minutes to peel the skin off a deer. To allow it to hang with the skin is not good at all, regardless of temperature.
     
  4. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    George, my camp is not a slaughter house. I like the hide on when I throw in the back of the truck.

    That is mainly why I do it.

    As far as aging I do like to let blood drain. My butcher told me to do that too.

    That deer froze pretty quick. Which may be one reason to take it off.


    As far as aging. There are many articles written post middle ages on the internet. I do t know if needed. But I don't want a skinless deer in bed of my truck.


    It is common in this part of country to hang deer outside. Since it is cold.

    If I get one at home maybe I'll butcher immediately . Though I have read you should let rigor pass.
     
  5. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    If it takes an hour to find a deer in the flames of Texas do you chuck it out? Cause I shot this at dusk, degrees and dropping. It was laying in snow.
     
  6. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    George, you will find a deer hanging in a cooler with the skin still on here in the northern part of the country, beef no. Many times deer are shot and hung at deer camp and subsequently freeze and then remain that way for a few days until dropped off for processing. The processor has to take care of the fresh ones while those frozen ones hang to thaw a tad just to skin them. The only reasons to skin critters fresh is they skin a hell of a lot easier and it hastens the escape of body heat, in colder temps the latter reason is negated somewhat.
     
  7. John67

    John67 Member

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    I killed a moose in -20f temperatures and it froze before rigor mortis set in. It remained frozen in my garage for the week it took to butcher and vacuum pack. She was the absolute toughest animal of any species that I ever ate! Moose are not supposed to be tough, but I’ve since learned the freezing prior to rigor can cause problems. This is a good article. https://www.shiveshskitchen.com/2016/08/rigor-mortis-in-meat.html
     
    msestak likes this.
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Look, I've hunted from Northern Alberta , above the Arctic Circle in Alaska and in Georgia in September. I've heard all the excuses, but I have studied a bit about meat care. If you want your deer to taste like old shoe leather, then by all means, let that sucker hang on the meat pole for a week and a half. In Alberta at -30, we skinned them out as quickly as we got them back to camp and then covered them with large plastic bags. The idea of hanging a deer to let the blood drain out is ludicrous. How is blood going to "drain" out. It was shot and bled all it was going to bleed. The idea of hanging them is to allow the muscle groups to relax and to cool the meat all the way through. Most every deer I've seen on a meat pole is hung by the head. Have you even noticed that butchers hang theirs by the butt? That's to let the hams hang down and loosen the muscles. The very best way to hang a deer is to hang it on a hook through the back bone at the butt.

    Deer hair keeps the animals from dying in extreme cold. It is a terrific insulator. Dead animals hanging in the cold will cool inside, but heavier meat groups like the hams will not. The hide will keep the outside under that hide from freezing quickly allowing bacteria to grow. And EVERYTHING rots when it dies, you just need to slow or stop that process. Ripping that hide off will allow the meat to cool completely through and through. And I know I'm pissing in the wind from some of you who've "ALWAYS DONE IT THAT WAY." And then you'll lie to me and say your venison doesn't ever taste "gamey" or it's always tender. Like this is my first rodeo. RIGHT!
     
    cyclone and msestak like this.
  9. Rausch

    Rausch Well-Known Member

    I don’t lie and I don’t give a sh!t what you think. You’re a pompous a$$hat who has never been wrong in your life. I’m 100% certain that I use more of every animal I harvest than you do.
     
  10. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    George you are right about one thing. Hanging from the head which is a tradition in many areas, will not let blood drain.

    But if you hang it head down it will.

    Gravity works.
     
  11. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    Do some of you throw your game out if you don't find it right away? Especially in warm climates, I have to think an hour or two could be worse than having a deer gutted with in 30 minutes .

    Hair is an insulator but not a heat source. When it's cold the animal freezes in hours.

    I have to suspect it cools down faster than an animal shot in the south, in general.

    I am.not saying its,a bad thing to skin. My butcher takes them with hide on. Laid on concrete. So will also depend if doing myself.

    I am curios how much meat dries. Some say to much is wasted, some not obviously.

    I do have to admit sometimes I am lazy and sometimes I want to celebrate.

    But so far I've never shot a deer who's steak I did not eat enjoy. Maybe I know no better. Maybe can better, but I have enjoyed it.

    Also UP is not the south.
     
  12. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    Tons of articles can be Google on again deer. I have had one butchered next day. I really don't remember anything different about it.
     
  13. msestak

    msestak Well-Known Member

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    i always leave the hide on when in the truck or garage floor. but once i hang it up, the hide comes off. its the way i have always done it. i was always told the skin comes off easier and the meat will cool faster. it is, and it does.

    just the way i have been taught. if its cold enough i might leave it hang for a day or two. but last year i may have found something great. i cut up the deer the next day and vacuum packed it. the meat is absolutely the tastiest i have ever had. i think its because it was vacuum packed. ?
     
    Rausch likes this.
  14. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Sadly, it is simple biology. Dead is dead and there is nothing to drain. Any bleeding done while the heart is pumping is all the bleeding you are going to get. Nothing "drains" after that. The blood is no longer moving and any remaining has long coagulated in the veins by the time you hang it up to skin it.


    Betting that it was. There are some new meat marinade kits on the market now that use a vacuum. When put in a vacuum, the meat fibers get spread apart. When done along with a marinade, the fluid gets deeper into the meat, faster than letting it sit for hours. The vacuum alone will pull those fibers apart and tenderize it. Same as freezing, but coupled with a vacuum? Probably double the amount of tender.
     
    GWebb and msestak like this.
  15. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Look Rausch, I'm lived a long time dealing with pissants like you and whether YOU care about what I say fits so damned low on my give-a-ship meter that it doesn't nudge the needle. I know what I know and I try to educate people. Things I don't know, I admit right up front or don't comment on. Even stupid asses have streaks of dumb luck. As far as you using more that I ever have, that's your ass talking because your head should know better if you've ever read about my history of being dirt poor and eating possum and coon just so I could have a bit of meat protein. The only thing on a hog or a cow I haven't eaten is the oink or the moo. (Ever eaten chitterlings or pickled pigs feet? How about cow brains and eggs.) Why don't you go impress someone who's about as sharp as the leading edge on a basketball.
     
  16. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    Sea wolf you are wrong
    Hang a deer up, head down. Look at the blood on the ground. Gravity always works.

    If you do it indoors use a bucket. Or don't if you don't believe.

    Whether enough to make a difference I can't say. But I know gravity works.

    Granted hide can be off.
     
  17. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Can't we all just get along?
     
    msestak likes this.
  18. Zerk

    Zerk Member

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    All this cause I asked about hair slippage. Ha.

    Last time I found a table with temps and how long can stay on.
     
    msestak likes this.
  19. msestak

    msestak Well-Known Member

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    some people still cut the deers throat after its dead so it will bleed out. then they expect the Taxidermist to use the skills of harry potter and make that mess disappear.
     
    GWebb and 3bears like this.