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Artificial Duck Bodys

Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by KLFL, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. KLFL

    KLFL Member

    I can’t find on McKenzie where they have different flying duck bodys for different poses? I need a more of a flat body and can’t seem to find it.. does any other website have them?
     
  2. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Look at Shane Smith bodies or make your own or alter one.
     
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  3. bucksnort10

    bucksnort10 Well-Known Member

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    After watching birds fly, especially landing, one begins to realize that a standard purchased body isn't very realistic for that mounted pose. Interesting that you caught that too.

    Now we expect great things from you. Ha! ?
     
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  4. Dark Man

    Dark Man Active Member

    If memory serves me right van dykes carries a flat breasted form
     
    KLFL likes this.
  5. BrookeSFD16

    BrookeSFD16 Well-Known Member

    Just sand down/cut alter any body. Take your carcass and pin it in the deired pose, then make your foam body match it. Suppliers usually make a duck body in a "standing" pose. It's easier to take foam away instead of adding.
     
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  6. Dave York

    Dave York Well-Known Member

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    WASCO had a flat breasted wood duck form. Not sure what other ones they had.
     
  7. GotHonks

    GotHonks Member

    I buy all standing bodies , for a flying mount .... I shave the breast area down a little with a rasp file .... Also alter them for dead mounts ... Used to buy the flying bodies before I decided to make the standing work for both ....
     
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    You know I have to laugh at these discussions. Way WAY back on the original forums this same issue was brought up and it's simply laughable for anyone to think that a duck changes its anatomy as it flies, lands, preens itself, or craps in the pond. The neck swivels and turns, the legs to the hips move, and the tail moves left, right, up, and down, but a bird's skeletal makeup is rigid and immovable. THE ANATOMY REMAINS THE SAME. No one makes a manikin with the tail bone affixed. Next time you get a duck in, grab around the breast and then try to turn the abdomen like those goofy "landing" bird bodies show. That stuff is a gimmick just like a manikin with all these beautiful rib cages and muscle structures molded in. Once you mount the skin and fluff the feathers, you can't tell the old Van Dykes body from these new fancy ones.
     
  9. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    You can wrap your own bird bodies if foam ones don't suit you. I don't wrap many bodies anymore. The time to do it is the minute you remove the carcass, so you have an exact model to build from. With a little practice, a good firm bird body can be made in just a few minutes.
     
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  10. sgsmith

    sgsmith Member

    Spot on George,
     
  11. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    George, for the most part, you are correct here, the skeleton stays the same but, muscle tissue does not. I think the problem many have is they try to use a standard form but never take the time to measure to make sure it actually fit's the bird they are mounting correctly. One size doesn't always work. I was guilty at one time but Shane Smith opened my eyes as to why some of my birds just didn't look right, even though the skin went on the form.
     
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  12. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    That is about the same thing I was thinking when I saw bird manikins with rib cages.
     
  13. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    3bears, exactly what muscles move away from the skeleton? That will be a pheno.i al biological and anatomical miracle. Aside from the tail the o lt parts that move are the head/neck, wings and legs. I'd never question Shane's artistic ability but I will challenge him to refute that. If you can stand listening to him, sit through a Frank Newmeyer seminar on bird anatomy and you'll find that even the best of the best dont always agree on methodology.
     
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  14. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    I watched a turkey mounting video by Frank and there was a ton of great info, but, sitting through that thing with all the preachy blah, blah, blah gave me a headache. Still, it was worth watching.

    I have no idea if this translates into bird forms, however, my thought is, an extended arm has a flat bicep. Bring your hand to your head and your bicep contracts. The skeletal make up of the arm didn't change, the muscle didn't come off the bones, however, it did change shape.

    Stretch your arms out to your sides and your pecs flatten out. Bring them together, hands out in front of your face and your pecs protrude out in a big ball like form. The skeletal frame didn't change, but, the muscle shape did.
     
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  15. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    George, they don't move away from the bone but they damn sure change shape and that damn sure influences the skin and subsequently the feathers. I don't know either Shane or Frank but have watched videos by both. You are blowing smoke up someones ass if you try to say that a relaxed resting bird has the exact same shape as say a flushing bird, or a bird in action of some kind. That's just not possible.
    This photo shows what I mean way better than my abilities to describe it. The skeleton is pretty much the same but the shape of that bird is very different than a resting bird. How is that one can think that bone is not influenced by muscle when all bones are connected to each other by flexible tissue?
    [​IMG]
     
  16. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Theres no smoke up anyone's ass. LOOK AT YOUR PICTURE! The basic shape of that woodie is exactly the same as if its wings were folded and its legs bent standing in an oak branch. BASIC BODY ANATOMY IS NOT CHANGED. The thighs and legs as well as wings and tail feather butt are not molded on any BASIC BIRD FORM. This was discussed at length on the old forums but many taxidermists simply can't envision the body form. Next duck you get, skin it out, cut off the neck, tail, legs at the hip joints and wings at the body. That's your basic bird body anatomy. Now bend it. I'll wait. Just dont try inhaling that smoke.
     
  17. bucksnort10

    bucksnort10 Well-Known Member

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    spot on Shawn!
     
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  18. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    George, I understand what you are saying but regardless of what was discussed in the past I still say, about the only parts of the bird's anatomy that stay consistent are the width of the hip joints and shoulder joints and the depth of the breast keel, everything else has flex and some movement, albeit limited but it still moves. Those consistencies differ in size from bird to bird, one size does not fit all, as it seems most suppliers wish you to believe. Yes the basic anatomy is there but the size is often wrong, for example, I can mount some of the wood ducks harvested here on a standard form offered by most suppliers but in all actuality they are too big for them. They work for a resting pose but they make it very hard to match any action pose, because the form is the wrong size and shape.
    George I understand you are old school and I appreciate that and I also understand that you say we can't reinvent the wheel but, that won't stop some of us from trying and we just may damn well do it, someday. Taxidermy for the most part has advanced tremendously over the decades and will likely continue but, it does so by folks not sticking to what some would see as the only way to do it.
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Well I guess we'll just disagree, but reading your rebuttal you seem confused. You agreement on what stays the same is exactly what I said if the keel bone is rigid I really have no idea what other parts of the anatomy fall outside the skeleton or how they could possibly move. Old school was biology and anatomy. Much of todays industries has trie to improve on perfection and when that doesnt work, the o lt thing left is gimmickry. Guys like Akeley, Hornady, and every icon in this industry first learned anatomy and then mounted animals. Theres one guy in Louisanna who can wrap a duck or goose body using wet excelsior, twine and an upholstery needle that includes the neck that will bring tears to the eyes of a purist. It looks exactly like a skinned duck without blood and gut. I've seen him take that for and mount a wood duck that would embarrass your picture. You know "new school" brought "common core". Perhaos instead of slandering "old school", you might want to look at it a bit more.
     
  20. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    George, I'm not confused. We can agree to disagree then. I don't fall for the gimicks. Anatomy encompasses much more than just the skeleton. If it didn't, we wouldn't spend any time rebuilding any soft tissue on anything. I'm pretty sure you know that as well.
    Please show me where I slandered "Old school". I said I appreciate it and try to learn from it. Chit I may be new to taxidermy, compared to you but, I'm not new to life.
     
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