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New With Questions About Fish Articulation

Discussion in 'Skulls and Skeletons' started by Buff42, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Buff42

    Buff42 New Member

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    IMG_20190911_032731.jpg Hey everyone! So as it states I'm completely new here and have never preformed this so I'd appreciate all the help I can get! As per my first question what is a good site to buy beetles from? Kodiak bones and bugs ive seen here or there. But what I'm more curious about is the process I read about in " Preparation of Ligamentary Articulated Fish Skeletons" by "Andrew Konnerth" out of the "Curator: The Museum Journal" Volume 8, Issue 4. Published 1965.
    I have found one post regarding this method from back in 2017 that was in regards to time constraints and preforming this method on a snake i believe that was given to them by their professor to articulate though there were no replies.
    Is this a fool proof method? Just a little more risky with the ammonia and sodium hypochlorite? Or the degreaser method? Has anyone ever used this method as I really see a completely different way of doing it. I was "brought up" knowing most of what I have read from recent posts here i haven't seen any mention of this other way.

    If you aren't familiar with it I'd be more than happy to shed more light on it as well.


    Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated!
    Thank you in advance.

    You can really tell I started out a little heavy handed.....
     
  2. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Absolute best site to buy bugs from is Ken (Kodiak Bones). You will not ever go wrong.

    Not familiar with that publication but, to do any ligament type mount with beetles, you have to watch them carefully and remove the specimen before they eat through the ligaments. Hand pick smaller larva and clean in a separate container so that you have better control.
     
    Buff42 likes this.

  3. Buff42

    Buff42 New Member

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    That's a great trip thanks sea wolf! I have seen you tend to comment a lot on here and I was actually waiting for a reply from you :D
    So per the difference between regular articulation and ligamentary articulation I'd assume its safe to say that the litteraly difference is just keeping the ligaments in tack? Is this the preferred way of articulating with smaller animals? In his article or what ever you want to call it I would have to clean the fish to the best of my abilities given the propped tools, then soak it in 6-10% ammonia I believe and then brushing bleach on it gently trying to avoid the fins and rinsing if needed. Which I tried and it seemed to work though if you saw my picture thumbnailed above I kinda got a little handsy with the scalpel and cut threw half the tail and half the anal fin (so I just removed it as it's only my first ever time trying this) but the ammonia and bleach can produce chlorine gas which I know can be VERY dangerous. Then he states that he uses a vapor degreaser to degrease the bones and then. Pins it afterwords. Obviously leaving out a good amount of detail but his mount at the end looked great at least to me and it only took 24-48 hours give or take from what I gathered from the publication which seem to be VERY quick looking at all the posts here about soaking in Dawn and ammonia for months then acetone for weeks and back to Dawn again for another month.

    Again appreciate the input @Sea Wolf !
     
  4. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Is that publication online? Link to it? ... Are they using chlorine bleach or peroxide? Ammonia will soften and puff up tissue. Peroxide will then dissolve it. Something I have done before. Yes, chlorine bleach would cause a reaction that will release toxic chlorine. Did they specify to use that? The "vapor degreaser" most likely is acetone. Small, thin bones of small fish will clean quickly as chemicals can penetrate faster and the ligament mounts are because the miniature bones are just too hard to try to assemble. The months of degreasing will be for large, solid skulls of mammals. You can force a degreasing job to go faster and, initially, it might even look good. But all you have done is removed the surface oils. Grease that is deeper in the bone will eventually migrate to the surface and create a nasty appearance as well as attract mold and dirt. Doing a thorough job takes longer but it will remain clean for the customer.
     
  5. Buff42

    Buff42 New Member

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    @Sea Wolf he specifies to clean the fish, soak in ammonia then rinse with bleach and use a brush and rinse as you go. Then the vapor degreaser (it isn't acetone but I can get you the exact name of it tonight when I got home) then it goes for a bath in hydrogen peroxide afterwords
     
  6. Buff42

    Buff42 New Member

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    @Sea Wolf also (sorry) as per links go you have to purchase the publication though I can link it if you want I just do not own the rights to copy it or save it in PDF format. But I can PM you a more detailed version if you'd like as well
     
  7. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Would be curious to see ...
     
    Buff42 likes this.
  8. Buff42

    Buff42 New Member

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    @Sea Wolf send you a message