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Constructive Criticism Wanted. Look At The Mount I Just Finished And Tell Me How To Suck Less.

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by Clovis Point, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. tem

    tem Well-Known Member

    what jumps out at me is there is no ear butt. no mussel build up and the in side of your nose looks black. it should be pink. and the mouth looks long but may be its just me. congrats on it. keep it up. you will only get better.
    Clovis Point and Micah Howards like this.

  2. Clovis Point

    Clovis Point Active Member

    Thanks. The last few I have done I’ve had to short a mouth and felt like I was trying to tuck a mile of hide. I guess I over corrected.
    msestak likes this.
  3. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    I hear Rick Carter's DVD is very informative. Maybe check it out?
    Pay closer attention to reference. You are using it aren't you? Pick one area at a time and make it match your reference. Often times the antler placement causes a bunch of issues. If you set them too high you then pull the skin around the eyes up to meet the burs and that resonates through the rest of the face. It appears that you have the angle pretty close but appear to be set too far away from the eyes. I take a measurement of this on every deer prior to skinning.
    Clovis Point likes this.
  4. Clovis Point

    Clovis Point Active Member

    3bears I know you know what you’re talking about because Antler placement and angle have been something that has caused me to pull my hair out On every deer I’ve mounted. When I received rach deer this year took a caliper and made a triangle measurement from the back corner of the earth to the bottom of the antler burr at the point where the hair changes direction to a point at the base of the ear. But it is this ear point that is hard because the ear moves. I am constantly grinding and shimming grinding and shimming trying to get my antlers right.

  5. Clovis Point

    Clovis Point Active Member

    And regarding reference, yes I am using it but one thing that kind of messes with me is it seems like a lot of deer will look different from each other. Not so much as far as the sculpting and clay work goes but in coloration. Were you referring to paint more so Or sculpting?

    I will admit however that I should probably print some reference photos or at least try to find an iPad or tablet cheap because right now I’m just using my phone.

    I would love to have one of those reference casts but it’s not in the budget right now.

  6. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    Measure from center of eye or wait til you have it skinned and go from center of eye orbit to the closest spot on the bur. In my experience that seldom is more than 2 1/4" to 2 1/2". If I have the angle right and keep it in close to that, it seems damn close in my experience.
    The ear position can and does change and the anatomy of the earbut does as well and it is our job to recreate that for the attitude of the deer and the ear. Remember the ear canal does not change location, that is where you have to start replicating the anatomy of the ear. Some forms have it started but that isn't always correct.
    I'm referring to anatomy, as you stated color changes but not anatomy as much.
    My suggestion is to sit down and study good reference, and replicate it, you've already shown you can put a skin on a form and make it resemble a deer now make it look alive.
    Jordan Park and Clovis Point like this.
  7. Clovis Point

    Clovis Point Active Member

    3bears, this is really good advice, and I thank you for it.

    this is one of those forms that doesn’t have the recessed part for the Ear canals (I’ve only ever mounted 1 other like this) and I knew I needed to cut out like a small ice cream scoop sized recess but I’m thinking I may have made them too far back for the pose and form.... being a more upright form which lends itself to a more ears forward pose... when I was making the indentions i kinda just based where I made my cuts off of where they are on other forms and I have mounted allot more full sneaks and semi sneaks with ears back than I have uprights.
    3bears likes this.

    WLELTD Active Member

    you can make your own cast, and actually will learn more that way , there are no secrets , the deer will tell you every thing you need to know , just start looking closer.and throw your black paint away
    Richard C and 3bears like this.
  9. bwb901

    bwb901 New Member

    I would use a better form. It looks like the nose is really long. Start with the best forms- mackenzie, joe coombs, mears, don’t cheap out or they will never look great. Mackenzie sells ear butt/ear combos that would help your ears out alot until you get your ear base sculpting better.
  10. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    606F3CEA-762A-499A-93DD-86B8A7ACAAFC.jpeg 15CA463E-2580-4830-B973-1782435FD05A.jpeg 3CAA3D5D-78E2-4CE9-BCAA-DD16146EFA4E.jpeg 6DFCFD65-654E-4352-BEFB-E821C7526B10.jpeg As 3bears said take measurement also remember your main beam usually run on the same plane as the ridge of the nose when looking at a side profile, I take basically 2 measurements on each side . 1 is from front corner of eye to front of burr and then from front center of nose pad to each antler tip. Remember tho you have to have your eye to nose measurements correct for this way of antler set to work . It also looks like your making your tear duct and lip slot two big , I only use my lip tucking tool to make a slit , I don’t cut anything out , after they are tucked you should only see hair to hair , no fillers or paint needed except for maybe some tint shading of the flesh. Another common rule of thumb is the ear butt is about the same width as the ear itself, also from the inside notch of the ear it’s only 1 inch from side of head when alert and never goes past the back of head when ears are back , I hope you understand what I just tried to explain to ya . The last bit of info I’ll share is , look at reference photos of the hair patterns , like above the eye on forehead and around the back of mouth , how it lays in the ear . Hair patterns can take an ok mount up one notch to a good mount and a good mount to a great mount , remember it’s all in the details . Hope that helps a little
  11. crablover

    crablover Well-Known Member

    good info there Glen
    msestak likes this.
  12. Richs Taxidermy

    Richs Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    Yes watch your hair patterns there like little road maps
    Richard C and msestak like this.
  13. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Remember one thing through the ear moves it has an anchor point and from there it twists and turns but does not move.
    Mckenzie sells ear parts that will aid you to understand clay work. Or go to OTS and get their ear liners that have a locking system and clay in the rest.
  14. Marvtaxidermy

    Marvtaxidermy Member

    The antlers are angled too far back. Imagine a line down the main antlers, should go through the eyes and extended through the midway between the corner of mouth and nostrils. If you angle that you will be close to on the money.
  15. BowDeadly

    BowDeadly "LIFE IS GREAT" It's better with a bow

    Glen great looking deer, you do good work.