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Brown Bear Hide Question

Discussion in 'Lifesize Mammals' started by Grizz46, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Grizz46

    Grizz46 New Member

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    Would any chemical reaction in a tanning process do anything like this. ?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. the hide on the mount is from a spring bear! all the hair tips are burnt(frizzy) from rubbing in the den!
     
    Richard C likes this.

  3. James Marsico

    James Marsico Well-Known Member

    Personally I think it's probably the same bear. Outside photos and mud on the hide can make the colors look different even in different kill photos. Lots of times some guard hairs get lost while drumming. I always double punch bears and measure them and take a few photos even if they are folded up in dried squares. People are always so quick to start yelling foul play, ripped off, call a lawyer. It makes me car sick. Another case study in why this business , well fill in the blank. Not my trophy. My kudu was 52" My bear was 6 foot or 12 ft. My elk scored 372. My buck had a huge neck. My cougar weighed 180 lbs. And on and on. Oh well. I hope it works out. A lawyer and court case will cost more than the hunt with the mount but unfortunately DNA skull claw tests is probably where its headed.
     
  4. Richard C

    Richard C Well-Known Member

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    Yes
    Jim
    Enlarge the photos and put your eye glasses on or clean your computer screen. You are correct though it's a DNA job .
     
  5. James Marsico

    James Marsico Well-Known Member

    I may be wrong but in my 50 years of this most of the time it's their stuff. I did have two bison capes come back from a well known tannery once and they were not my clients capes. No punches on them, nothing and I had double punched them on each side of the neck and put ear tags in mine and the ones I got back were alot smaller capes than what sent in with no tags no punches. I was told to pound sand. So it happens. DNA will solve it but then what?
     
  6. James Marsico

    James Marsico Well-Known Member

    now this raises bright red flags. I didn't read this before posting earlier. Now I believe it's not your bear. Someone is lying bigtime.
     
    Lance.G likes this.
  7. Grizz46

    Grizz46 New Member

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    Good morning. The cities tag in the hide. #0013472. It’s a blue plastic tag that was in the hind leg skin. I’m offering a $ 500.00 reward if anyone comes across this tag. And a $ 2500.00 reward for the tag in a bear skin. Pass it around. Thanks
     
    Richard C and Lance.G like this.
  8. grumpa

    grumpa Member

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    Yeah Jimmy, But you raised a stink before you mounted them. You knew they weren't yours right off the bat. Right out of the box.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  9. James Marsico

    James Marsico Well-Known Member

    I know. Remember when I got a box of 15 javelina capes and other desert critters from that same tannery. They were not mine I had never sent them even one in my life. The insisted they were. I sent those back to them after arguing with them anyway and after that I never heard another word. I will never ever no matter what send them anything now. Tanneries screw up like we all have. This bear may be a case of a studio taxidermist or secretary marking things wrong. The time line is WAY WAY telling. Now its cover your butt time at the tannery and taxidermist. Best thing they can do is fess up and do what they can to straighten it out..
     
    Richard C likes this.
  10. Richard C

    Richard C Well-Known Member

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    I like the reward idea. It may turn up with this incentive. Good luck !!!!
     
    James Marsico likes this.
  11. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I've had a LOT of information since my initial response. Though I still tend to be like Jim on my initial comment, far too many other things I have heard simply dont match up. Tannery turnaround, even paying extra for a rush job was first. Then the turn around time throws up lots of red flags. Then the pose, which was my initial comment, didn't match the client contract. Finally it was the taxidermist supposedly cutting hide away to find a punch code. REALLY? Would any of you ever done that?
     

  12. DNA may not solve the question, acid even in the amounts used to tan hides with normally alters the DNA to where it will not match anything. If the skull was cleaned there might be DNA in a tooth. But then if the teeth were removed they might have been dropped in peroxide this also alters the DNA.

    Without a gray scale in all the photos and the lighting conditions being perfect. HArd to tell.
    Wet hair does in fact look darker than dry hair.
     
  13. Grizz46

    Grizz46 New Member

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    Your right on the dna. First hair sample from the hide sent to the taxidermist. Came back inconclusive. The gal from uc Davis forensics asked for a claw. Hoping to pull the sheath and get down to the inner bone part. To test against bone and tooth. Still no Guarantee. But with out any further help. This is what I have to hang on to.

    As far as wet hair versus dry hair. I understand the light and wet. If you look at the hide in full. And the hair against the skyline. The bear had 4 to 5” long full on fall coat. With no rubbing. All the long guard hair. Is just plain gone. From my knowledge. The only way to replicate this is to have had it been rubbed off.

    I have found out another bear in the tannery within 2 days of mine. Went to a northern pines taxidermy. And was told another taxidermist was to come pick it up there. We may have each other’s hides. If I could exchange photos with this other taxidermist and hunter. It may or may not help. But would eliminate one more possibility. 3 others were there at that time. But haven’t been able to get info as of yet we’re there headed.
     
  14. grumpa

    grumpa Member

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    Have all involved parties check tag numbers, if there are any on the hides. Fastest way, IF there are tags and IF somebody doesn't decide to keep your bear.
     
  15. Richard C

    Richard C Well-Known Member

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    What is the latest on this issue???
     
  16. Grizz46

    Grizz46 New Member

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    Good morning. As of Thursday 2-20-20. After getting ahold of the tannery owner on Thursday. He has been reviewing the photos on this forum and others emailed to his company. Also agreed it looked like a spring bear that had Been in the den. He said he would personally contact the taxidermist with the other 3 bears and ask for actual field photos of the other bears. And see if we could figure this out.
    As of today. Sunday. 2-23-20. I have not heard anything more so far.
    If any taxidermist had brown or grizzly hides at the tannery this fall. It may not hurt to double check with your clients field photos also.
    I am Also increasing the reward/ finders fee for the blue plastic cities tag # 0013472. To $1000.00 and if the tag is attached to the hide $ 5000.00. Thanks for helping.
     
    Richard C, Rausch and Micah Howards like this.