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Mute Swans In Michigan - Destructive Alien Species

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Joe Kish, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Thomas G.

    Thomas G. New Member

    I still think you all are missing the point. A genocide against these foul birds would not destroy the ecosystem. It would majorly help it. These birds are killing the native species, so they deserve to die.
     
  2. Yourmom

    Yourmom New Member

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    Once again I understand the stance you come from but I know that studies ought to be done to find out the impact taking away this animal would make.

    Unless you have an environmental degree, which you might I don’t know, you don’t know the what effects the extermination of this creature will be.

    Obviously the ecosystem is capable of living with this creature as it’s done so for over a decade.

    I also believe that eventually they should be eradicated from thus area. However, where the bullish attitude comes into effect is when a whole animal population is removed at once.

    We could slowly phase out the Mute Swans, while I can understand your worry about how long it’ll take to get there I can also say almost definitively that the end result will be better for the ecosystem in the long run.
     

  3. Thomas G.

    Thomas G. New Member

    Ok look, invasive species are invasive. All they do is steal and kill, and since they have no predator in that ecosystem, they DONT DIE. The only predator they have is us. DEATH TO THE MUTE SWANS.
     
  4. Yourmom

    Yourmom New Member

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    You see, 3Bears, the kind of people who are on your side. People who believe the same as you have no care for the repercussions of their actions.

    People who act upon their first impulse without careful consideration of the small yet important details. Those types of people are the types of people that introduce problems like these then have no plan for how to fix their mistakes. When there is a sudden rise in the bird population, then a sudden fall of their prey's population, then a total collapse of the ecosystem.

    I want to know what we are going to do when there is nothing in that ecosystem anymore. When there are no animals and a too large of an amount of undergrowth. What happens then when this whole process could've been avoided by stopping a few acts of vigilante justice.
     
  5. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Thomas, I am not missing the point at all.
    Yourmom, you are foolish to think that I don't care about the repercussions of my actions, I most certainly do as I also care the same for other's actions which leads us to where we are, with an invasive species given protection based on emotion and not science. You may be correct that the ecosystem has survived, apparently OK, with these birds but you can be sure that it survived and will survive without them. Please tell me what benefit could these things have on the ecosystem? Has there been studies to prove it? I'm quite certain that by removing a population of non-native birds here will not have any influence on the population of them in their native ecosystem.
     
  6. Thomas remmingberg

    Thomas remmingberg New Member

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    3bears,
    The point is that we shouldn't eradicate a species just because they don't serve any use to science. You are clearly missing this seeing as you think mass genocide is the only option. You are making food more scarce for the animal hunting these birds and therefore do not care about the repercussions of your actions. If we eradicate a species it will create a domino effect killing more animals then precedented. the point you are trying to make is wrong and has the potential to kill 20-50% of the bird's predators. If anyone here is the fool, it is you.
     
    Yourmom likes this.
  7. Yourmom

    Yourmom New Member

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    If you paid attention to my statement, the danger wasn't the positive impact being gone from the ecosystem, but in fact the sudden rise in its prey. The animals that were preyed upon will see huge growth in numbers by mating season and then there the food supplies will be exhausted and there will be nothing left without intervention by people.

    Thus I still support a plan of slowly phasing out the mute swan population to allow the ecosystem time to adjust
     
  8. Joe Kish

    Joe Kish Well-Known Member

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    Come around Yourmom. Mute swans anywhere in the US are NOT slightly harmful to the environment. I never said such a thing. They're very harmful. Re-read my original post.
    These swans have made a significant impact on the environment. ALL NEGATIVE.
     
    buckmasters243 likes this.
  9. Yourmom

    Yourmom New Member

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    I do apologize for the misquote and I do realize they are harmful, however, your plan of "shoot, shovel and shut up" might be even more harmful to the ecosystem as Thomas Remmingberg and I have tried, tirelessly I might add, to prove how an immediate eradication would be all but straight-up murder to the ecosystem itself.

    If you read the above comments you may see at least one good example of the dangers of immediate extermination.
     
  10. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

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    the mute swans would not be difficult to control in Minnesota ya know cuz they dont migrate and they will all band up in open water areas which there is not much of when its 30 below zero but most are in cities or parks but you betcha 3 bears kill em all .... on a side note I recentlly saw a pair of trumpeters (pure white adults) with a pitch black yearling...and yo'mama I would shoot pluck and deep fry.... not the least bit aftaid of possesing a dead one
     
  11. wa

    wa Thanks John...this depicts me better

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    The only people that can talk about mute swans are people
    who have to deal with Them!
    I live in the mute swan Capital of the World
    we have (thousands) all around me
     
  12. Yourmom

    Yourmom New Member

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    Are you assuming I don't live with this problem in my community?
     
  13. Chad Houston

    Chad Houston New Member

    Actually "byrdmad" Mute swans are quite easy to keep control of once you know their weakness. As for me I found that if you hold their beaks shut, grab both of their feet so they can't try to fly away, and then look at them straight in the eyes and honk at them, the level of mutual respect goes up out of fear that you might honk at them again. Let me know how it works!!
     
    Ron B likes this.
  14. Fermis

    Fermis Well-Known Member

    Ron Swanson...is that you???!!!
     
  15. Chad Houston

    Chad Houston New Member

    No this is Chad.
     
  16. Fermis

    Fermis Well-Known Member

    :D
     
  17. Joe Kish

    Joe Kish Well-Known Member

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    I’m going somewhere with this response, so please stay with me. I’ll keep it short as I can.

    I ran a post on January 29th titled NTA And Conservation – Oil and Water. I was looking to test the interest of readers in actual wildlife conservation. The post was short and sweet:
    “What ever happened to a or the conservation committee of the NTA? I noticed the word conservation appeared twice in the NTA bylaws but other than that wildlife conservation doesn't factor in any way with the ignoble NTA.”

    Only 155 viewers even bothered to read it and not one reader or NTA officer responded to it. It was the kind of post any self-respecting credible club of most any kind would make an official response to. It all goes to a lack of leadership.
    Of all the current members of the NTA and of all the other taxidermy associations that use the word conservation in their by-laws, and with so many members who spoke and speak with gushing pride how proud and grateful they are to their club for doing so much to help them advance their taxidermy pursuits, not even one reader took any issue whatever to the content of my uncomplimentary post.
    This little experiment reinforces my theory that taxidermy clubs, particularly the NTA has been well on its way to total irrelevance for the last couple of decades. Regardless of how many records of high attendance at their conventions they can show, that organization has no heart, no soul and no raison d'etre. It continues to live on because its activities are very profitable to the upper castes who control it, as well as to anyone with something to sell, like supplies and private lessons.
    In Article III – Purpose - in the NTA by-laws it reads in Section 1 a) To promote education dedicated to taxidermy and the conservation of wildlife through taxidermy… Reading it several times I still can’t get past any thought other than it is a wonderful, nay, a superb written example of incoherence. So what’s the purpose of Section 1 a)? Don’t know. Don’t care.
    Invasive species is what we’re here to talk about. And what’s being done by anyone or any taxi club to reduce the damage alien species do. I chose Mute Swans above starlings, English sparrows and feral cats for example because they’re wide spread, highly visible and highly destructive. And it would be highly profitable if some taxidermy club, like say Michigan, would hammer its DNR to reclassify Mutes as a varmint or maybe even a gamebird with unlimited bag limits so taxidermist could mount them legally and charge a fortune for the work. I’m still waiting for some response Michigan?
    Now would a couple of you new guys please go back to facebook or wherever you came from and talk your jive over there or find another venue to get your dopamine. Yourmom, try reading a book or two on wildlife conservation and stop making yourself look so ignorant.
     
  18. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    For taxidermists, stupid comments no longer surprise me, HOWEVER, "making it political"? REALLY? This forum has changed into one where 90% of the current posts on here are "political".
    I also realize that the majority of taxidermy sometimes takes the vocabulary to extremes, but anyone who claims that eradication of AN INVASIVE SPECIES is "genocide" needs to take a good hard look at a dictionary. I don't think swan eradication has anything to do with racial, political, or cultural beliefs in a group of people.
    And don't even think of using the words "good conservation" with the protection of invasive species. By the very title, this is a species that has either been artificially or migratorially introduced into an ecosystem that is not equipped to handle them. Next thing I know, some of you will be objecting to killing boars, sows and piglets of feral hogs. The mute swan is no different in any way. They were genetically wired to be domestic fowl, just like a damned Muscovy duck, or in the same sense as a white leghorn chicken, a chihuahua, or an Angus cow.
    Wildlife departments were once run by highly qualified biologists. Political gerrymandering and nepotism have now bought them more in line with politically correct social groups driven not by the American Wildlife Conservation Model but rather by PETA, HSUS, ASPCA and the little old ladies from the Feral Cat Society. And then these numbnuts will sit back and wonder what happened to all the beautiful wild critters that no longer visit .
     
    Ron B and 3bears like this.
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    This bunch of fools here gave a limited protection to the coyote because HSUS claimed that hunters intended to IRRADICATE them. I told the lady if we could do that, we'd be able to make a fortune from those states that weren't even able to CONTROL them. Around here, the coyote numbers are monitored closely so we use the Three S principle of wildlife management: Shoot, Shovel, and Shut up.
     
    3bears likes this.
  20. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    Joe, I don't believe that I saw your previous post. I'll have to look into it.
    Lets discuss the associations influencing states to change regulations. How do you propose they do that? In a perfect world the state's officials would remember that they are employees of the citzens of the state, but unfortunately that concept has been buried so far under BS that it has been "FUBARed".
    I attempted to take the MNDNR to task on an issue that affected not only my business but that of many. I didn't look to abolish their rules but yet to work with taxidermists to come up with an amicable solution. You can guess what happened. Sure I met with politicians and DNR officials, only to be told that my concerns and the concerns of many in our trade didn't matter in the scheme of things. These rules weren't signed into law at that time, they circumvented the law that refers to rules only becoming laws if not contested within 18 months. The MTG also was present at these meetings with similar concerns but I am not a member.
    Your last paragraph I agree with.