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Correct Way To Skin A Wing

Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by Bruce M, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Bruce M

    Bruce M Member

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    I know you had good intentions and as I said earlier, thank you and I don't harbor I'll will. I appreciate the guidance and info you gave...you just rode me a bit which is ok too. I'll let you know what the agent says...I didn't turn it over because it is almost 200 mi. The nearest usfws office and I figured the state warden who issued would take it. I know you have done a service to the rest reading this too.
     
  2. crablover

    crablover Well-Known Member

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    Bruce, thank you for that! My intention was only to correct the miss information some had posted. There is NO GREY AREA in the laws. You do not personally need a state licence or a Migratory Bird permit unless you are charging for your work. Because thi is a protected species, and falls under USF&W regulations, it must go to a USF&W permit holder. In this case it would be a Salvage permit since it is one bird. Multiple species or to build a collection, a Scientific Collection Permit would be needed. At this point, you issue is holding a protected Owl without the proper permit for it's final destination. Without that, you are 100% illegal. If you plan to continue taxidermy, it would be wise to apply for a Migratory Bird Permit, and state licence if required. As stated above, if you plan to do taxidermy work on legally acquired species for yourself, you need no licence or permits. I hope this all works out for you in the end, and it would be wise to get the full set of CFR's which include a list of all endangered, threatened and protected species world wide. Good luck Bruce
     
    socalmountainman likes this.

  3. Fallenscale

    Fallenscale Well-Known Member

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    No there no grey area in the law
    The grey area comes from the officer of the law not prescribing the proper steps of the law.
     
  4. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member


    I don't see a grey area here. In the end the office did a poor job of helping Bruce and Bruce was in violation of the law. The officer deserves to be counseled on what to do in this situation and Bruce deserves what ever the law wants to give him. Hopefully they will be merciful and understanding.
     
  5. Fallenscale

    Fallenscale Well-Known Member

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    Can you recommend a DVD on this subject. That what you do best.
     
  6. Fallenscale

    Fallenscale Well-Known Member

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    Can you recommend a DVD on this subject. That what you do best.
     
  7. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    I know of no DVD that will show you the difference between grey areas and black and white areas, however, if you research the laws, it is made plain that if you do this, this is the consequences. Those consequences usually have a range of severity, but, they are still consequences for your actions. If you break the law you simply deserve the consequences at what ever severity they deem fitting. If I drive over the speed limit, I deserve to be pulled over and I deserve a ticket whether I get one or not.
     
  8. Bruce M

    Bruce M Member

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    This afternoon I finally got in contact with the usfws special agent and I'd like to relay what I found out and how this situation came to a conclusion. I know many of you are waiting and wondering...btw the agent was on an out of state special assignment for 3 weeks which is why he took so long to respond to my inquiries.

    First, to crablover, tanglewood, social mountainman, vulpes, fallenscale, wildthings joeym dave k and anyone else who thought (knew) and pointed out that I was in the wrong for picking up, possessing, working on and finishing the barred owl mount without a US special salvage permit were 100% correct and I was 100% in the wrong. Those folks were also correct in interpreting the FCR in that I could have only worked on the owl IF it were being mounted for a scientific institution, educational facility, or nature center holding a US issued scientific collection permit AND I was: 1. A named subpermitee on the institutional permit OR 2. I were a practicing taxidermist (for profit) who was approached by a permit holding institution and requested to perform the work of mounting the specimen AND presented the specimen by the institution or federal law enforcement agent AND I were in possession of a federal migratory bird permit for an individual in business AND I held a state issued license to perform taxidermy. When that work would conclude, the specimen would be turned over to the named primary permitee on the institution permit....again, exactly as those of you in on all of this said....you guys were all spot on in your interpretation and understanding of the regs....I shouldn't be impressed but I kind of am. You were all correct.

    So, what happened to me? I explained the entire situation to the agent - from the moment I found the owl to the point of the discussions on this thread...he listened the entire time. When I concluded, he explained that, yes, I was in violation of the law as stated on CFR 50 - which I already, by this point, knew. We talked about the interpretation of the regs - as I relayed above....I did ask lots of questions as I wanted full understanding and he patiently answered all of my questions. He then asked me about my situation so he could fully understand my initial intentions about using the bird for educational purposes, etc. At that point in the conversation he looked up my school district in the institutional permit holding data base and found out that my school district possesses the institutional scientific collection permit - due to the variety of protected species mounted and on display at our school forest. Another interesting side note is that the district also holds a permit allowing posession of bald eagles of which there are multiples as part of the collection. At that point he decided two things: 1. Since I called, self reported, and explained the entire situation in a complete and up front way and that I acted in good faith based on what I had been told (which, all of you were also right in saying was wrong as performed by the state warden) that there was to be no issuance of fines or legal action - whew!! 2. Since I am an employee of an institution holding the US scientific collection permit, the owl should be turned over to the named primary permitee on the permit and become part of the institutions collection.

    A post script - I learned a ton through this entire process about the laws surrounding this topic and actually feel like I understand it thanks in large part to the discussions we had. Thanks to all for being honest with me about it. The US special agent and state conservation warden were both great to talk to and deal with...I feel like I got lucky t
    here or maybe covid 19 helped. I loved working on the owl and am looking into the possibility of being named as a subpermitee on the institutional permit which would allow me to do more work like this for my district (educational institution) in the future. I was extremely fortunate that this ended so well for me - largely because my district holds the permit. Had it not, I feel confident the owl would have gone to the local university's natural history museum, which wouldn't have been all bad either. And finally, I believe that had I not reported, but rather, been found out, things would have gone much worse for me in the end.

    So, for what what it's worth, that is how it all ended. And after all that, now that it is all on the up and up, I feel like I can show you how the bird turned out....for me it still is and always really was about the bird.
     

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  9. I am glad this worked out well for you.
     
    Bruce M likes this.
  10. Wildthings

    Wildthings Well-Known Member

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    Well now great ending. Thanks for sharing!
     
  11. Bruce M

    Bruce M Member

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    Thanks
     
  12. Bruce M

    Bruce M Member

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    You're welcome...thanks I am relieved
     
    Wildthings likes this.
  13. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    That's awesome!
     
  14. crablover

    crablover Well-Known Member

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    Bruce, great news, and Iam glad it worked out for you. To many taxidermists, some who commented on this thread, do not know the laws, and can find themselves in a situation like yours. You have been given a pass, and an opportunity to continue your interest in taxidermy. I would take the steps at this point to apply for the proper paperwork to continue should you choose too. Get your state taxidermy licence, and your USF&W Migratory Bird Permit. That permit should be 50.00 for a 5 year permit. Make sure you get the CFR's as well along with the list of species that fall under federal classifications. The CFR's you would want are 50 CFR 10-30. Every serious taxidermist should have the CFR's on hand. You did a great job on the Owl, and once again I am happy that it worked out for you. I also hope that those that posted miss information have learned as well the important's of knowing the laws, and how to get questions answered via the federal CFR's. Good luck in the future Bruce, and am glad it ended well for you!
     
    magicmick likes this.