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Need Help Understanding Measurements. I'm Stuck!!

Discussion in 'Beginners' started by TheReelCowboy, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. TripleC

    TripleC Member

    64
    23
    Georgia
    So here is the problem 13 point. You are not reading the original post nor our replies correctly.
    #1 He wasn't able to verify the measurements.
    #2 He was told A - 8" and C 19.5" (tight) and was told to order a form with 8" (A) with a 21.5-22'' (C)
    #3 It is already at the tannery.
    #4 Not sure what you are reading, but none of us said smaller. I specifically said a "different" measurement. Of note, this is the same train of thought that the taxidermist that measured it alluded to when he recommended the larger form. You even said in your first post that the hide would be "sometimes even bigger.".
    #5 If you shave off the inside diameter, the internal circumference increases. In that aspect his hide would probably measure larger than the initial measurements by the taxidermist, hence his recommendation for a larger form. You even alluded to this in your first post. However, this is completely contrary to what you said in your previous post, "we all know that’s BS a hide is what a hide is and dead or alive it will measure the same". You contradicted yourself on this thread.

    We all have our opinions and methods of doing things. How about this? Offer your advice based on your experience and leave it at that. Don't crap on the comments of others on here trying to help this guy out. If you would actually take the time to read the exact post verbatim and the follow-on comments, they were all sound suggestions. Let Cowboy take it all in and make a decision that's best for him.

    Honestly, I can probably relate to him a lot better than you. When I order a form I need to ensure it is exact, because I can't turn around and use it on another client's mount (I don't have clients). I learned this the hard way (monetarily) and was trying to help Cowboy not make the same mistake. How many post on here have people complained about shipping costs? Hobbyist can't absorb those cost like a professional taxidermist. I am not a professional taxidermist. I fly helicopters for a living, but I do seek out the best in the industry every chance I get to teach me about a hobby that I have a passion for. Maybe I will give it a try after this military thing is over. After my experience with measurements and form ordering, I have specifically asked everyone about taking measurements and everyone has said to take them after the hides are tanned. I am always absorbing knowledge. It is the ONLY way to ensure you have the exact measurements of a shaved, tanned hide. Even guys doing something for 30+ years can learn something new.

    The measurements Cowboy was given would make we question their ratio before I would order a form. Not saying they are wrong as the Good Lord makes things as they should be , but I would want to verify them prior to ordering a form. BTW for what it worth, I agree that he doesn't need a stretcher.
     
  2. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    I also followed up and stated if the deer was in rut it could measure bigger then the time it was killed , from being run down, meaning meat measurements to hide , but it would measure the same size as if it were in rut , you are saying after it is thinned out from the tannery, a raw measurement is the correct measurement. If you over stretch a cape it will change hair patterns and will not look or lay correctly. I’ve been doing this for 33 years and I do learn things everyday, but the measurements of an animal is what they are period , just cause you can pull on it and it stretches past your measurement one way you can bet your azz it changed somewhere else . I did read his post and then I read other post stating you’ll get your true measurements after it gets back from tannery and that’s how you have been taught , sorry but that’s wrong . I believe it was also you that said you had an 8 inch e/nose then a 26 or something like that and the 3rd measurement was smaller , don’t believe I’ve ever seen a form get smaller. I don’t know any company out there that won’t take a form back if you don’t damage it . And if you did you learn to alter it . That’s the problem with most trying to do this trade now , if you can’t snap it together or if it don’t fit perfect your lost , let’s not learne to flesh when I can just send it to a tannery to do it all . Let’s no learn to put a septum in when I can glue a fake nose on . Let’s not learne to alter a head I’ll just buy a replacement / swap out head . I’m not saying any of those things are bad to use , what I’m saying is you should learn to do things especially if your trying to save a dollar. There is a lot more to this trade then most think , but at the same time there is a base on some things that don’t change and measurements are one of them
     
    countrycritter likes this.

  3. So the cape came back yesterday and it is wet tanned and they did not measure it. From what some are saying I can unthaw it, measure then refreeze immediately. Do you think it will cause slippage? I can't help but think about the rule of not un-thawing and re-freezing meat.
     
  4. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    It’s tanned it won’t slip , put in fridge let thaw , no rush . Pull in all directions get measurements then roll back up and freeze, or if you going to mount it put back in fridge, order form and material and while ur waiting prep cape to mount put back in fridge. As I said it’s tanned it won’t go bad from this point.
     
  5. countrycritter

    countrycritter Active Member

    171
    66
    Texas
    I pull a weeks worth of capes out at a time a week ahead of when I mount them. So some actually stay in fridge for up to 2 weeks. If the skin was properly tanned it will be just fine You can get as rough with it as you want with no worries.
    Skins will be smaller when they come back from the tannery because of the act of salting them causes them to shrink. It's very easy to stretch back to original size or bigger. Bigger is not always better I agree with 13 point you can get hair patterns screwed up by going bigger. Always measure before caping animal out while skin is still on the animal. By subtracting 1" off of the B & C measurements you'll get a very realistic measurement of the inside skin measurements which would be your form measurements to get a form that fits perfectly.
     
    TheReelCowboy and 13 point like this.
  6. joeym

    joeym Old Murphey

    Once tanned, lay it out on a table. Measure the distance just below the ears, and order your form based on that number. If it's split all the way down the back, I usually fold the skin over with the hair being inside, and sew them up to a short Y incision. It's much easier to test fit on you mannikin once sewed up. Hope this helps.
     
  7. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    13 pointer, this does sound like the start of a cluster flock, doesnt it. I was going to let this be a learning project but I'm glad you broke the ice. You know we have BIG deer here on Delmarva. They're big because we got them from Ohio and Michigan during the 50's after market hunters almost eliminated them.
    Adding to that, I and my friends chased whitetails all over this continent from Alberta to Arizona and Georgia. In 60 years of skinning I doubt I ever saw more than 6 eight inch E-N deer. My dilemma was most often a 24 inch neck with a 7 inch nose out of the extreme northern areas. Unlike some, most of my deer were measured before skinning and with the tape pulled tight around the atlas. Tanning them seldom, if ever, effected those measurements. That's an old wife's tail from the era when we used battery acid (sulfuric) as a "pickle tan".
     
    13 point likes this.
  8. George, You were going to let this be a lesson to me?

     
  9. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Not just you, but to all the questionable advisors. The Cherokee never stopped a child approaching a fire. They said all the warning fell to the wayside until the child felt the flame. Those of us here have spent decades to learn what the flame of following free advise felt like. Many times beginners will answer questions in the Beginners category. Just as often, good advise can be found under the Search. On here remember "caveat emptor". Learn who are the experts in the field are and PM them. There are a dozen exceptional taxidermist on here regularly. None of them is going to leave you hanging. I was lurking but 13 point addressed the problem as well as what I've just said.
     
  10. got it
     
  11. Thanks 13,

    I get what your saying and it makes sense. Thanks
     
  12. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    Anytime , as I’ve done with others if like to call or text me feel free to do so . 410-977-1856 Glen
     
    George likes this.