hey whats the go with hide pins, i got some to use an when it comes to the thicker deer the pins stick in to the hide and the plastic handles rip off LOL. obviously i need to upgrade my pins, like long pin to hold the hide on in first instance- ? also with a thick hide say elks for you guys, anyone else punch the hole in the hide first with a sharp needle / handle then pass the needle an thread through? i had to do this on my last one- i am basic no thinning machine etc. my large needle bent so much i used it as a pre hole puncher an used a smaller S needle to thread..... im goign to continue pre punching i think as it was a beter outcome for myself, just need to find some tools or make some to suit.. any helps, what do u do?