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Ear Forms For Deer Mounts

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by jigginjim, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. jigginjim

    jigginjim Active Member

    I used Mckenzie MV100 ear forms for a deermount. 2 months later I decided to bring this same mount to a state competition, mainly for the idea of having deer scored for customer use. As a taxidermist doing customer work i would like to know want I can do do improve my work for clients.
    During my critique, I was told my mount was a complete train wreck. My ear forms were completely wrong. Funny their are wrong when I used the MV100 and a photo of a live deer at a sportsman show. to put the mount together. As a machinist quality inspector, inspecting boeing aircraft parts and measuring. I measured everything to as close as I could.
    I will no longer bring any mount to a competition, as have several others that have since stopped being part a state association.
     
    Robert Baker likes this.
  2. Richs Taxidermy

    Richs Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    You need to post your pictures, state association s are a great learning tool,study your critique and then study live deer or great reference,see how wrong or right the judge was.
     
    drob, Robert Baker and Lance.G like this.

  3. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    How you handle that is you take the same deer to another competition and see if you have the same results and critiques . Then you will see who is correct, I’d be willing to bet the judge was talking bout the earbutts . Post pics of your deer and score sheet if possible. Remember that is just ones person’s opinion, you can’t take competitions personally it is as you said a learning experience. If you take it that way you will learn, I promise. Now post those pics
     
    Robert Baker and Lance.G like this.
  4. whitetails and fish only

    whitetails and fish only Well-Known Member

    There is a lot more to a deer ear than what earliners you use. Could be earbutts, Hair patterns, drumming, color, etc. When you start to get into competition you can't get buy with much.
     
    Jeff70, Keith and Robert Baker like this.
  5. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Now it sounds like this person is a know it all as all he is doing is critiquing his judge as he don’t know what I know cause I’m all of this. Now this is what I got from your post.
    Saying this your there to learn and apparently you have a closed mind and don’t want to learn , ask questions how can I improve.

    I judged a person like you way back and said I bought this from so and so and he’s a world champion. My response was , please ask him in what I wrote down was correct or not. Ya well the champ agreed with my thoughts. It was the person using the parts the wrong way in which is what happened to you. Just because you have good parts doesn’t mean a thing if it’s installed incorrectly.
    As stated above show close up pics of the ears and even tell us what your judge said. I’m sure you’ll hear what you don’t want to hear or it might be different.
     
    jessewild, George and Robert Baker like this.
  6. jigginjim

    jigginjim Active Member

    Sorry, I can't find the paper of the critique. Although what I do remember it was almost not readable. I did get a 70 the lowest score for a ribbon. I'm not worried about a ribbon I want to give my customers exceptional work. I was in the military for 28 years gave many critiques to other ncos about training I would have been drummed out of the military for doing this to another Soldier. I will do my best to get photos up mind you this deer has been on display at a couple places and has taken a dirt bath at one show where it fell off a stand. I have hunted deer in Minnesota since 1973 this is only my second buck ever shot. And was trying to go for the poles of when this deer came out of the swamp below my stand as he was quartering away, but had turned his and moving his ears to check out any sounds.
    I was a member of Minnesota guild, but many like myself like information. But feel if you're not part of the elite group? You are just donating money for the beer party.
     

    Attached Files:

    Robert Baker likes this.
  7. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    Well just as I thought, the judge is 100% correct. Deer could be 20 years old and it don’t change the fact that it’s not anatomically correct. It wrong in so many different ways , I’m sorry to tell you . But if it’s one of your first deer it’s not that bad and you have a foundation to build on . Take what he said to heart and fix those areas . And you will be good to go . I no u don’t want to hear that but it’s the truth
     
  8. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    That would not be any where near a customer quality mount in my shop. As what others said, your judge was correct.
    Also, just because a taxidermy supply company offers artificial animal parts, doesn't automatically make them correct.
     
    Richard C and Frank E. Kotula like this.
  9. Mike Powell

    Mike Powell Well-Known Member

    Judges in competitions are supposed to set a high standard, and while the judging is always somewhat subjective (different judges have different opinions and perspectives) it is always an opportunity to get unbiased critique of one’s work, wether you agree with the critique or not. One should always accept the critique with the same lack of personal bias and try to learn from the assessment. Based on what you said of the judging and my own inspection of the photos you shared I don’t see much justification in criticizing the judge. I know for me, the longer I go without getting my work critiqued, the harder it is to accept the need to have the critique at all.
     
    Frank E. Kotula likes this.
  10. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    Is this same deer that you took to a show in march and posted that the judge was wrong? It sure looks like it.
    Maybe, you should accept that those judges were right and strive to utilize their critiques to your benefit.
     
  11. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Me thinks he’s reading what he doesn’t want to hear and your all wrong as it may not be a best in the world but I know it’s a blue in my state. Ok jdk here!
    Hopefully you’ll take what is being said here and learn more on this trade. It would be wise to go back to your association and see who can teach you some techniques that’ll aid you here.
    There’s a lot wrong with the mount and be happy you got a 70. Hopefully instead of being so pissed at the judge and the association this will put a fire in your ass and come back with a Vengeance and become one of the best. I’ll say this it out a fire under mine and I did do what I set out to do. Best of luck
     
    Doubled-d65 and George like this.
  12. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    1,208
    209
    Iowa
    I've been to many competitions in the past 10 years and specifically focus on the deer in the room. That deer is a 70 at any show from any judge.
     
    Jeff70 and George like this.
  13. 13 point

    13 point Well-Known Member

    If that
     
    George likes this.
  14. jigginjim

    jigginjim Active Member

    Thanks for the advise, I do know it's no blue ribbon. You catch more flies with sugar than alcohol. I do feel the judge could use some better tack as . Son we need to go over now you use references. What reference? you can do this and add here. One thing I know I need to work on was ear butts. so using one that is sold through a supplier along with the ear liner. I thought it would be better then just jamming clay around the ear butt area. The school I went to the owner was more into give me your money and Ill show a few things.
    Many other that wenty there also said he sucks as an instructor. It's alway just good enough. No instruction on how to use the reference. We didn't even learn how to measuring, capes, ear form eyes or how to order forms.
    I have looking to go back to another taxidermy for better instruction. Having been doing this for 9 years and always looking to improve. But when you only do one or two deer a year. What do you do?
    The deer I have done customers have even sent others to me to have shoulder mounts done as they liked what I done.
    I am thinking of another way to do deer heads. One thought is when people bring in a head for and euro mount . skin the head out turning ears lips and eyes. Just mount that skin on change out heads.
    I joined the state association, to learn more, I have even looked to worked for others to gain knowledge. Even pay them for the time working on their stuff. and my own.
    Thanks for the information. I have several dvds Rick carters A to Z. Meders deer dvd. and several.
     
    Frank E. Kotula likes this.
  15. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member


    This is exactly what I did for quit a few years experimenting with tons of ideas and products before offering to the public. Very good idea!

    You can mount and remount on a single head three or for times. Each time try a different way to remount it.
     
    jigginjim likes this.
  16. jigginjim

    jigginjim Active Member

    I am thinking of doing another class just to learn more on deer heads. The idea is to have another that can also explain what I could change.
    No just tell you it a dam train wreck, and only tell you the ear butts are not correct. When I asked about eyes and lips This guy said those don't matter. That's why it still pizzzing me off. I paid for a critique, not some BS.

    As an military trainer and Evaluator, We could n't just say Your screwed up apes. We were to explain in detail what our troops did wrong. but also give guidance as to how to improve every step. From Putting their hazardous equipment gear but also how to do a decontamination other all equipment. I was a Nuclear, chemical and Bio hazard tech, for 7years, after that I did 12 years as ammo inspector, supervisor of Brigade Ammo operations, including EOD, destroying artillery rounds that were claimed to be dudes.
    Including making Foe-gas bombs and other things that would bring terror to the hearts of our enemies. I started in the Infantry, during final of VietNam.
    I was going to do taxidermy along fishing guide service in Minnesota. No issues with doing fish mounts.
    My uncle done taxidermy for four years, until some ass thought paul was an Elk in trees of Craig, Co. My aunt had to find others to do 4 freezers full of birds,fish and deer. He also had a full story surplus store.
     
  17. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    1,208
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    Iowa
    Using reference and interpretation of it are 2 different things. Ask yourself, are there any pictures on the Matuska cd you posted that look like your mount? The best seminars I’ve gone to at state shows were how to interpret reference and apply to your work.
     
  18. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    1,208
    209
    Iowa
    As an honorable military veteran you are, I have to take your word when you say you asked the judge about your eyes and lips and he said it doesn’t matter. That is unacceptable. Who was this judge? I am the president of the Iowa association and need to know this so they are never hired to judge our show. Also need to let other associations know not to hire a judge that won’t critique all aspects of the mount and just leave it at bad earbutts.
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tact and diplomacy is for politicians. We're taxidermists and taxidermists judge taxidermy. I sold my business to a young man ive come to love as a son. He bugged me to let him come watch and he'd pay me to help him do better work. I relented but told him I NEVER charged to help. He walked in the door for the very first time with a mounted pair of wood ducks. His very first question to me was "How can I make these look better. Without answering, I pointed to my 55 gallon trash can. Today we laugh about that and he says it was the best advice he ever got.
     
  20. livbucks

    livbucks Well-Known Member

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    Big mistake is smoothing the skin out over and over flatter and flatter. Gotta learn to lay it where it goes and leave be. Get hair patterns right. IMO why so many heads look like mummified remains. Lips so tight they look like Joan Rivers post op.
     
    George and Mandi like this.