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I'd like to hang some black bear guides

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by *, Aug 25, 2007.

  1. cattrax

    cattrax Beats being in the shop!

    From the outfitters standpoint, in Montana anyway. Very few outfitters here promise to care for a trophy beyond skinning or caping. Many don't even do that. They just get it to a processer (and let them "butcher" it). With the outfitter that I guide for, we just cape and freeze. Still have to watch for warm capes going into the freezer but overall it's done fairly well. Other local outfitters are a struggle. It's a constant battle. One thing that has helped is billing for fixing damaged skins. A lot of these hunters will go to the outfitter to find out why their skin was mishandled. Most of the guys that I work with want to do it right. They want that client back and they want to have a good reputation. One guy from last year didn't realize he was butchering skins. Nobody ever told him. I've gone to some camps to do lessons. It's kind of a pain but I think it's worth my time in the long run.
     
  2. Turkey Creek

    Turkey Creek Member

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    I agree as well that our customers need to be completely educated before they leave on a hunt. Your right I expect somebody that passes themselves off as a professional guide should also know exactly what needs to be done to a cape/ hide and include it as part of the hunt. However, a customer should have enough knowledge to know when things aren't being taken care of appropriately. Knock on wood but the last few bears and african pieces that I got in to work on were in great shape, mainly because my customer new what was on the line and gave it their full attention once the shot had been made.

    Chris
     

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I'm sorry guys, but I don't buy blaming the customer here. As Lou stated, when I contract with an outfitter or a guide, nearly every contract I've ever seen promises me "trophy care" in some sort or another. Talking from OUR viewpoint, of course the hunter should know proper field care, but oftentimes we have individuals who are hunting a particular species for the very first time. A guy from Georgia who hunts quail all the time goes to Maine on a black bear hunt where transportation, food, lodging, skinning, quartering the meat, and field care are promised. Should he insure that he packs his ulu and a box of scalpel blades as well? Since truth in advertising is the law here, should the contract not read "hunters will be responsible for their trophy preparations"? Now how many of you will HONESTLY tell me that YOU would go on a hunt advertised like that? As Lou said, I am paying for a service to be rendered and just like my bear hunt, it was a busmans holiday. I still got involved, but not because my guide and outfitter didn't ask me as a courtesy if I'd rather do it than have him skin and flesh it. Still, he did an admirable job on all the other bears taken in camp and he was paranoid about gutting the animal quickly to prevent spoilage and skinning it within hours and getting the cape into a deep freezer to keep it from slipping. This outfitter took his responsibilities seriously and had gone to a local taxidermist to get educated on proper field care. That homework insured him a much better tip from us than if he'd been a slackard.
     
  4. 1stManna

    1stManna Guest

    Removed ;D
     
  5. Tenbears

    Tenbears Member

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    Gorge and I rarely disagree. Us old injuns got to stick together But I guess this is one of those rare occasions.
    That good old quail hunter from Georgia hunts with a shotgun all the time. In Maine a high powered rifle is the norm. Many outfitters advertise they have a shooting range to check your scope after the trip north. Does that mean when the Georgia boy shows up with his new K-mart Weatherby and scope in unopened boxes. It becomes the guides responsability to assemble and sight it in.
    This is one of the many problems in the world. the belief that because you are "Paying Good Money" you are entitled to everything you want. or emagine you should get.
    Just because someone pays you good money to mount their deer does not mean they are automatically entitled to have every chipped tine repaired, or a panel added, or a plaque with there name and date of kill. They are entitled only to what is spelled out exactly in the contract.
    Yes, I do agree that many Outfitters imply Trophy care. and the customer needs to Be clear on what that entails, or does not.
    Just as many taxidermist display mounts that have placed in major competitions. In a sense implying that is the type of mount the customer receives. we know the reality.
    And car sales men make all sorts of implications but the entire free world knows only that which is written is what one can enforce.
    Most people who can afford Guided trips are educated adults. Not Naive children. they know full well the ways of the real world.
    To go off on any venture be it hunting, of buying a car, boat etc. without researching the facts is unrealistic in todays world.
    The simple fact is the customer need to do his homework. and research the do's and don'ts of the sport. that is why references should be called. Caviet Emptor.
     
  6. 1stManna

    1stManna Guest

    Removed per request ;D
     
  7. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)


    I pay an airline to fly me across the country, that doesn't mean if the pilot dies I should know how to fly the damn plane. If I buy something on the contract promise a certain professional service will be provided then it damn well better be provided! Paying good money does & should come with the expectation of profesional service.
     
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tenbears, we still ain't disageein'. Your points are quite valid as always and I, too, tire of that "it's not my fault" scenario. Even if I never intended to do any taxidermy work, I'd have never gone hunting without knowing what the taxidermist was looking for and insuring that I did it right on my end.
     
  9. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    If most of us went hunting we would know what to do. But just because a city slicker gets to but a hunt, he should not get screwed by the guide who does promise to take care of the skin. That is the whole reason the uneducated hunter is paying good money.
     
  10. cattrax

    cattrax Beats being in the shop!

    I suppose for me to educate outfitters and guides is easier than for me than for some of you guys. They're right here in my back yard rather than 1000 miles away or worse. I don't know all outfitters everywhere but I'm convinced the ones here aren't trying to screw anybody. They flat don't know any better. I certainly don't do all the stuff that gets killed here. Alot of it still goes back east or south or wherever. If I can get these guys to do a better job for me, they'll do a better job for the the taxidermist in Pennsylvania or wherever. The hunter as you guys have said must share some responsibility as well.
     
  11. Tenbears

    Tenbears Member

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    Yes Michael, If your outfitter promices you trophy care. And you pay accordingly then you darn well should get that. However especially in the case of bear hunts. they most often offer assistance in recovering. skinning and quartering. Maybe transport to a processor. Few offer, or promice trophy care, I recently hunted big browns in Russia. the hunt was in excess of $10,000.00 their version of trophy care was they kept it cold until they got it to the taxidermist. Who prepaired it for export. Which was extra. and yes, they advertised field care of my trophy. The problem is there is no such thing as an industry standard. and I do not know as there should be. add to the mix that a great deal of bear hunting takes place in other countries. and the problem increases.
    I go on a hunt for bear to Ontario every year. They provide "care of your trophy wile you are with us" they do not provide mount preparation. The cost is $1250.00 Good money for some. A mere pittins for others. Believe me I do not like seeing beautiful hides go to waste because of poor care. But exactly what is Care of your trophy. and where does the guide's responsability end?
    although you pay good money to fly, and do not expect to have to land the darn plain. I am sure you neither expect the pilot to place your luggage safely into the rental car for you. After all he is a pilot.
    And a guide is a guide. Not a taxidermist.
    Although city slickers may get taken advantage of by misleading information. Just as many bring it upon themselves.
    That Ontario Trip I spoke of earlier. I book all the spaces the outfitter has. And fill them. When a client asks about bear hunts. I tell them about Our hunt. The cost is $1250.00 and they will have a Taxidermist along to ensure their bear is properly taken care of. I even feed them for the cost. You have no idea how many times those very clients will show up with a bear hide that they got at good ole oak leaf lodge or someplace. The hide half fleshed, and dipped in sea watter to salt preserve it. Do you have any idea the microbes in sea watter? Why would they hunt there? I'll tell you because it is $150.00 cheaper! and they make no bones about saying so. Then when I tell them their hide may slip because of the sea water dredge. They blame the Guide!
    Ignorance is the lack or knowledge. Stupidity is being to lazy to get it.
     
  12. Sawetamen

    Sawetamen New Member

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    I had a guide bring in a bear head and paws still in, I new this camp did not have a freezer and when I rubbed the ear in front of him and all the hair came off he said what did you do, I told him the head was rotton. Crazy thig he still blames me even though the bear sat out a week in june. There is alot of bears that I see leave this province in the spring most with the head and paws still in because alot of camps don't know how to skin them out. I know the taxidermist south of the border is going to have a problem with these bears by the time they get home but the hunter still wants to take it home to show his buddies or there is a local guy they want to do it.
     
  13. cattrax

    cattrax Beats being in the shop!

    Well said, Tenbears.
     
  14. Kastaway

    Kastaway Taxidermist, Pioneer of Freeze Drying 1969

    Kulis Productions has added to their dvd library with a new series of field care. The black bear is the first of this series and will be ready to ship next week. It would be a great teaching tool to give to a hunter going on a bear hunt, so he would be able to watch before he goes on a hunt and would understand how to handle the head and feet which are always the problem area. It covers from skinning of the carcase all the way to feet, head, ears and finally salting. As a special offer to the taxidermist, Kulis will be offering a quantity discount on this dvd so he can give it to potention customers to watch and learn. Both will benefit in the long run.