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Yes, another stop rot question

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Manderscheidt, Sep 21, 2007.

  1. Manderscheidt

    Manderscheidt New Member

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    I know that stop rot has been beeten to death on here, but I am not a regular visitor to this site and so I may have missed this question/answer. And yes, I did do a search but didn't find it there either.

    Two questions. Does stop rot need to be refridgerated? Does it last from year to year? I ask these questions because I bought a bottle last year, used about half of it, forgot to refridgerate it, and now I have half a bottle that has been sitting at room temp since January. I am assuming I need to buy a new bottle of this stuff.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    I was going to start this answer out with, Manderscheidt I put up with, but thought maybe I had better not as it might be a real name.

    Regardless, you should be set to go. STOP-ROT takes a lot of temperature abuse and just keeps on working. It can be frozen at below zero temperatures, heated up to 160 degrees after the fact, and works as good, if not even better.

    I'm a big believer in testing, especially ANYTHING pertaining to materials in taxidermy. If you want to put your mind at ease, just use a couple of little squares of skin off a fresh chicken, fat and all. Use one for a control, treat the other with STOP-ROT, and place them in individual Solo cups, side by side, and let them sit at room temperature. I guarantee you, you will get your answer real quick.
     

  3. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    Glen, can you post pictures of the injured dog again? I thought that was amazing! Also, how bout one of your brain teasers? Its been a while. Some good microscope photos? Anything to combat the tanning category boredom lately. I promise to play nice.
     
  4. Manderscheidt

    Manderscheidt New Member

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    No need to hold back on the jokes ;D, I don't mind. Thanks for the response. I used it on all of my deer last year and felt that the hair in the ears stayed put better because of it.
     
  5. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Manderscheidt, another thing you might want to do, if you haven't done so already, is to brush a thin film of STOP-ROT on the skin side of the eyes and the nose pad BEFORE neutralizing. That's another place you can get bonus results.

    Well, oldshaver, it's like this, recently I was giving Ken Edwards some behind the scenes updates on developements and I told him that I had mixed emotions on how much of what that I should go public with in the way of information. He told me that he thought I really should publish it (information) somewhere.

    Since a number of us have been interactive on this forum for a few years now, and there are others that hang out here that know what I do behind the scenes, I thought taxi.net was as good a place as any to start.

    I had gone through my past notes, and photos and started putting together several different pieces of information. I "try" to keep almost 400 web pages under control. What I frequently do is to make copies to WordPad, and then e-mail those to myself so that I can find the writings instead of losing them in files that I can't remember what I named.

    Welp, there's a first time for everything. I have been having trouble with disk defrag not working, along with scan disk. I followed MicroSoft's resolution, and then scan disk ate ALL my e-mails in my inbox. Somewhere between 150-200 total. I really didn't want to lose all of those. Disk defrag and scan disk still don't function.

    The moral of the story is, I'll have to start all over again. I do have enough data accumulated to keep a number of people in culture shock and denial. Screw the denial crowd, they'll never accomplish anything anyways.

    Rather than post the dog photos again, here is the link to that original thread.
    http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,1770.0.html

    I'll see what I can start working up.
     
  6. John W.

    John W. New Member

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    I'm amazed,just unbelieveable! :D
     
  7. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Glen's best work can be seen in the Who's who thread.
     
  8. paul e

    paul e New Member

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    Manderscheidt when you do as Uncle Glen says ,putting on eyes and inside ears and nose
    youll also notice you wont lose as much color when its drying
    less painting yehaw!
     
  9. It can also be applied to ears, eyes and muzzles when you are prepping the cape raw from the freezer. You will notice the epidermis will hold better throughout the tanning process if that simple spritzing is used.

    To all the naysayers:
    I have used Stop Rot in a custom tanning operation for 12 months now and I have seen fantastic results with hides that I know would not make it before. I know it isn't a miracle product, but it works on iffy hides.
     
  10. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    I dont think I have ever seen a naysayer, as far as this product goes, in all honesty. If some hunter rides around showing his buddies, his big buck, for a little too long, this should help.
     
  11. paul e

    paul e New Member

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    ive even saved a few of those wet ice chest rides
    cheap insurance
    wish i could say everyone takes care of their capes but
    even good customers bring a wet cape or whatever now and then
    what ya gonna do tell your # 1cust. for example ,no i only take completely fresh capes
    in the real world you get stuck trying to save a few you wish you did not have to fool with
    good to have a product out there that gives you a fighting chance
     
  12. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    oldshaver, you said you were going to play nice, well I'm not. I'm going to give you that brain teaser you wanted. I'm going to warn you, it might make your head hurt with all the thinking.

    For your hints, you're going to get the photos. I took the pictures yesterday, but ran out of time to add them to this post.

    All the photographed subjects have been kept within 17 feet of each other at all times.

    The Taxidermologist has put his theory of dermestids attraction in the archives more than once.

    This should make all the Old Boyz sit up in their chairs.

    I'll get back as soon as I can, and as much as I can.
    ****************
    Addition
    These pictures were taken under incandescent light, so they appear more yellow than what they do in real life.

    The piece you see on the panel was a piece of meat that was left on a cape that had been STOP-ROT treated. After I cut it off, I just laid it on the piece of panel you see, and dated that same panel. 12-27-01. again, the photos were taken 9-26-07.

    You can see the piece maintains some degree of flexibility. I would have expected it to be brittle. Truth of the matter is, if it had not been STOP-ROT treated, I wouldn't expect it to be here at all.

    Around this neck of the woods, we got BUGS, and they are going to get in, one way or the other.

    The jaw bone section and vertebrae were kept in proximity of the treated piece during the same time frame. The meat on each was cleaned off only as much as could be done with a knife. I had some other pieces involved during this time period, with only little bitty tiny pieces of meat left on, like what you would have if you cleaned a skull plate by hand. Bugs got that too (the Taxidermologist is probably squirming every time he sees me use the word "bugs". It's so much faster and easier to type than insects.).

    Speaking of the Taxidermologist, he has stated a time or two that he thought the ammonia given off in decomposition was an attractant to dermestids.

    I have pointed out in the past that STOP-ROT can be added to household ammonia, and the ammonia smell disappears. However, if this combination is allowed to evaporate off, it leaves a syrupy like product that when reconstituted with water once again yields the odor of ammonia.

    I had a mount that was done with a vinegar pickle (a guy has to check everything out, just to be sure) and a Brand X brush-on hanging in the same area as the pieces you see pictured. It got ate on. Other mounts in the same area have not been touched. Let me write a bit of a disclaimer at this point.

    Disclaimer: The other mounts were pickled with an acid formulation that I came up with, after that they were washed in another product I came up with (Fat-B-Gone). The Fat-B-Gone when applied to a green cape can and will cause ammonia to be given off as a gas that is quite obvious to the human nose.

    To add to this disclaimer, any time you start crossing your chemicals, there's almost no tellin's what you are creating in the way of compounds. For example, when STOP-ROT treated pieces are put into an acid, STOP-ROT as such is history, from there on out you had better figure you are then dependent on the tanning system you are using.

    In summary for these photos, we are seeing two things. Long term preservation, and a deterent to insects.
     
  13. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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  14. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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  15. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    oldshaver, you had better get to figuring out some of these brain teasers or we never will get through them all, don't chicken out on me now.

    Couple more photos, I just took 'em. What the heck is it? Is it tanned? (Uh, that was too much of a hint.) I bet you've ate a lot of it in your day.

    What you see in these photos introduced a totally unexpected "end result". There was another specimen (control) that was kept side by side with this one. It totally disappeared!

    *****************
    Addition
    These next two photos are of a piece of chicken skin that was STOP-ROT treated about three and a half years ago. The second photo is a close-up of the skin surface.

    A piece of chicken skin was cut into two pieces, big lumps of yellow fat and all. One was treated, the other was not. Pretty much as to be expected, one smelled like dead bird.

    Neither piece was bothered by the bugs, but one piece did disappear entirely.

    They had been sitting around for a couple of years, then I had some house mice move in on me (had cats for twenty years before that, never gave mice much thought back then). They never bothered the piece of deer meat on the panel, nor the STOP-ROT treated piece of chicken skin, but I watched results every day on the half rotten, dried out piece of chicken skin. The little boogers just kept eating away at it until they got it down to a size they could carry away.

    As you can see in the photo, the gross fat of the chicken skin has oxidized away over time.
     
  16. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    Glen, you are going to have to slow down!Closer to laymen, would be great! Dont you dare stop either! I have stayed awake nights thinking about this stuf!
     
  17. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Well, oldshaver, I'm glad to hear you are losing sleep over this. After the way you tricked me with that bull doggin' photo in the Who's Who thread, I owed you one.

    When I first saw that photo, I thought, "Me and oldshaver can TALK!".

    Here's a photo of the beginning of the pony rides from my 40 th. birthday party. I was up on him not a lot of minutes after the photo was taken. Took darn near all day to buck him out. Nine year old range bred stallion that had never been ridden, he was tough.

    I know, I know, the Texas gals like Kim Owens, Aunt Becky, and the Piggy are going to ask, "What's the big deal? Down here we go through that every morning just to have something to ride to work."

    Gals, it's like this, up here in the People Belt, this is wholesome entertainment, and besides, up here the chicks dig it.
     
  18. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Dear Sleepless in Carolina:

    What is going on here?

    Addition: third photo added October 2, 2007

    Addition:
    The question I had asked was, "What is going on here?". I can see why that was a hard one to answer as I was having a hard time figuring out how to explain it myself. The reason I was having a hard time was because I knew that most on here do not have a clue as to what skin structure is really like. That's just a fact of life. It can get real hard to communicate if no one has any idea as to WHAT you are trying to communicate.

    What you are looking at in the first photo is an entry wound on a cape that had been frozen for over a year. STOP-ROT was brushed on as it thawed, and the wound area was kept wet with STOP-ROT, which floated the blood out from between the fibers. You see the end results in the second photo.

    The third photo that I added shows the fiber structure, but not quite accurately enough. The reason I say it isn't accurate enough is because the cape had already been pickled in an acid. As a result, the structure of the collagen was changed.

    Different acids yield different end results in pickling. That is another area that I can't help but notice is full of made up opinions here on the forums. If all acids were the same, they wouldn't have different names. Some acids will BURN or OXIDIZE these structures in two (or more) over the length of the fibers.

    Since I started adding to this thread, I have taken off on another tangent. You will want to see the addition I made under bovine collagen. The initial results are at this address:
    www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,47292.30.html

    This will give you a much better idea of what collagen will appear to look like in a living skin. It's the best I can do for now from the stand point of photographing the structures. I do have limitations with my digital camera and microscope combination, but these photos are still far, far ahead of nothing.
     
  19. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Dear Sleepless in Carolina:

    While you're thinking.............here's a few more to figure out.

    I think this lot of photos is Uncle George's favorite.

    Unc, time flies when yer havin' fun! Do you realize how long ago these photos were taken? Me neither until I started pulling stuff out of files. These are from 4-15-03.
     
  20. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Old Sleepless, os for short, same day photos.