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what is the difference???????

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by done right taxidermy, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. done right taxidermy

    done right taxidermy New Member

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    what is the difference in the mckenzie brush on tan that ive been using and the stuff that commercial tanneries use???? ive noticed when i walk in my tannery that he TANS his in a large vat in some sort of solution...???? what is this solution. the reason im asking is , im not getting the kinda stretch that hes getting and im shaving as thin as he does.? any help would be appericated.
     
  2. oldterryr

    oldterryr Terry's in Heaven with no worries at all.

    ask him what tan he is using - your tanner does this for a living and has probably developed skills over the years that you havent learned yet.... and more importatnly he does it for a living - ... and mckenzie tan isnt that great a product
     

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  4. John W.

    John W. New Member

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    If you read the different posts concerning Mckenzie tan,there are quite a few of us who don't get any stretch-actually you get more shrinkage as opposed to stretch from this tan. ;D
     
  5. Dave H

    Dave H New Member

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    ohio
    Who ever you are from Sivko fur, with an answer that rude and unprofessional, it's amazing to me that you have ANY buisness at all. I have just started a search for a new tannery, and you have just eliminated yours from my list.
     
  6. "Who ever you are from Sivko fur, with an answer that rude and unprofessional, it's amazing to me that you have ANY buisness at all. I have just started a search for a new tannery, and you have just eliminated yours from my list."

    Dave i am guessing you got the recipie from COCA COLA and PEPSICO too, if you had read any of our posts in the past you would see we do give helpful tipS and answers to difficult situations all the time. There is no way we would give out proprietary chemical formulas....and even if we did you wouldnt be able to duplicate the results. As for customers last year we grew by 37% for our best year in 30 years ; we have just over 2000 customers who use us....i fired 25 customers this year who like yourself are now trying to find a new tannery to send their work too, which will slow down the return times even more at some of the other tanneries. Sorry if you find it rude, but welcome to the business world, companies dont give out secret propriatary information.
     
  7. Ditto
     
  8. Dave H

    Dave H New Member

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    ohio
    I am a manager in 300 million dollar a year business, and have been for 20 years. I know allot about the business world, and how to treat customers. Business's like yours go belly up every day because you have obviously forgotten how the business grew in the first place. CUSTOMERS, or did you single handedly do it all by your awesome self. Of course you don't give out proprietary information, but most of us understood that they guy was asking a general question about tanning, home tanning vs commercial tanning. Keep firing those customers, and treating the rest of them like Sh_t and see how much your business continues to grow.
     
  9. That makes no since at all. Its their formula no one elses. They are probably glad you wont be their customer.
     
  10. oldterryr

    oldterryr Terry's in Heaven with no worries at all.

    sivkos answer was what i was trying to say - mine just wasnt as eloquant
     
  11. 1stManna

    1stManna Guest

    Re: what is the difference???????


    :( I will be the bad guy here since many lack the courage to speak out and say what they are really thinking! LOL! So when I'm done, I am sure some of you will gladly "rip me a new one" - and enjoy every second of it! ::)

    Allow me to address this question posed to you and what you said in response. I understand that there is a need to protect formulas, trade secrets and such. Really can't argue much with that. I often fill the same way! Everyone wants the answers RIGHT NOW while other people accomplished the hard work to get there. All you had to say was the formula is proprietary and not available to the public. And then you could of simply told them to use Lutan Fn and work from there. As far as 50 ingredients, that is bullshitz and you know it! --How many ingredients do the same thing or is over kill one way or the other? -- Did you also add salt and pepper plus a little hot sauce? LOL Don't take this as a personal slam.

    :eek: I too, get ticked off of the freeloading of many while the few produce positive results. As a matter of fact, I get down right mean over the whole matter. You see, people don't want to work, learn or read, don't want to study and explore. Many take on jobs which they are not qualified for and blame others for their failures. We see it on this forum every other day. IF you don't offer the solution and FREE help and butt kissing assistance, you are the bad person, mean and hateful!! I say, get a real job and stop this endless entitlement mentality! It is helping kill our society! :eek:

    :D There is nothing wrong with helping people and I fully support it. 8) If you really want to learn this trade/profession and master what you can while alive on this planet, pick a school, teacher, class or whatever and PAY THE GOING RATE and help keep our economy strong. Other than that, a person just becomes a freeloader on a consistant whiny basis.

    8) I will help anyone free of charge to a point. Go beyond that point and I will charge you and expect to be paid just like any other teacher/instructor/business. If you work, do you expect to be paid or do you work for free? Some people put on a false front and love the attention and comments of how great they are and how much they help everyone. These same people need this to stay alive as this is their lasting legacy so to speak because without the fuss and attention, they would surely wither, die and blow away. :'( I think some of you know the individuals I'm alluding to. These people really have nothing left but a taxidermy forum. How sad but how true it is! :'(

    ::) If you want the training for goodness sakes, don't be a cheapskate and mooch off of everyone else over and over again. OFFER to pay people and take your education one step at a time! Be a giver and stop taking everything without ever putting something back.

    Books as well as other things created, put together and more,... anyone else that creates something.. costs money and there are expenses involved! Why not help yourself while helping others? Buy the information you need and GROW with actual learning by giving something in return! :-\

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong!
     
  12. OK I am not hear to get into a pissing match with you Dave, but first being an employee of a company for 20 years regardless of how large, is entirely different from being a business owner.

    Here is a news flash the customer is NOT always right and neither are you.

    If you reread his original question he asked what is his tannery's solution <PROPRIATARY> that makes it so much better. my first post and i stand by it addressed how silly this question is.

    As to why we fire some customers or refuse to do business with others what you may not know is that there is a list of "troublesome" taxidermist that most of the large vendors to taxidermy use to screen out those that are chronically slow payers or bad checks OR unethical, any numerous reasons how they got on there we as vendor pay to support this list and keep it updated we also use it as a tool to decide who we take on as new customers and who we may let go. The point is if they make it to this list they are alot more trouble than they are worth.

    As for this industry goes we have been in it for over 30 years at the same location. i feel fairly confident in saying we have a pretty good grasp of what were doing and what works.
    We are not as big as some nor do we desire to be, last year we tanned
    1880 deer capes, 407 back bears, 622 deer hides, 303 coyotes over 200 buffalo, and 201 gemsbok and thats just a partial list

    Dave, when you reach that volume and do it for 30 years i will be alot more interestd in your sense of what is the right thing to do to be successful in this business. I will guarantee that giving away your proprietary recipe to anyone who asks for it wont make you successful
     
  13. 1stManna

    1stManna Guest

    :D OK, OK, Where has all of the love gone among our brethren? ::) :-* 8)

    LMAO ;D
     
  14. I think some of you read WAY too much into done right's question. Nobody's trying steal any secret formula or piggyback on someone else's hard work and experience. It is a simple question that you can choose to answer or not. Why be so defensive ? Lighten up .
     
  15. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    Remember me? Is this advertising? A couple of weeks ago when Dave was griping about our turnaround, you chose to chime in. 50 ingredients? Are we now breaking down the whole tanning process, into their own individual elements? Sodium,sulphur,chlorine,carbon,etc,etc,etc,etc,!
    Two chemist 30 years? What were they smoking, for it to take them 30 years to develop a good tan? Formulas? 99 % of that is public knowledge now. The only difference, is the little tricks of the trade, we have learned, over the years.
    You want to know why his stretch is lacking? Take a look at the Mackenzie instructions, on this product. Look at the skin the person is shaving. Look at the color of the skin. It is not pickled throughly. Why? There is no agitation like we have in a tannery. You cant leave a skin sitting still, in a pickle, and expect it to stretch, if it doesn't
    pickle throughly. You will diffidently need to reshave that skin after you put it back in pickle, because it will swell.

    Is the oil compatable with the tannage? Who knows. Old, but the memmory still works.
     
  16. 1stManna

    1stManna Guest

    ;) You tell'em OS ! :eek: ::) ;D
     
  17. "50 ingredients? Are we now breaking down the whole tanning process, into their own individual elements? Sodium,sulphur,chlorine,carbon,etc,etc,etc,etc,!"

    OK for the slow readers or those who have poor to non existent reading comprehension skills; once again i will try to clarify if you come across a word you don't understand try sounding it out slowly.

    what i said was
    " ....raw chemicals and then weighing and carefully measuring each ingredient there are about 50 different chemicals used in our tannery ....."

    IF you are able to read and understand it means we have well over 50 different types of chemicals in our factory that we use in different stages of the tanning process unlike some taneries we also do leather hair off in addition to hair on, for example our custom grease has 18 different ingredients. NOTE i DIDNT say that there were 50 different chemicals in one solution

    your next well articulated derogatory question was

    "Two chemist 30 years? What were they smoking, for it to take them 30 years to develop a good tan?"

    see if you can keep up on this answer, ask someone to help you do the math if you run out of fingers and toes

    Mr. Farkas and his wife both got their degrees in chemistry he then went to get his masters degree in tanning from a university in Hungary before the Russian occupation, after fleeing the Russians he went to Australia where he spent 20 years running a sheep tannery.
    He moved to the untied states in 1972 and began tanning for the garment industry, sadly he passed away 3 years ago (2004) yes he spent 30 years developing a custom formula.

    your next intelligent blurt was

    "Formulas? 99 % of that is public knowledge now."

    We do not use a premade tan in a bottle/drum, unlike some tanneries. Instead we buy raw chemicals in bulk and custom blend them. The only premade products that we introduce to certain skins are stop rot to green or frozen skins before we wholesale flesh them and stop slip both of which we highly recommend. We also use and recommend Bruce Rittels deodorizing formula when trying clean or remove unpleasant odors such as smoke damage from fires or cigarette smoke. Our formulas are not public information and they never will be.
     
  18. max

    max New Member

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    In my opinion the best "shop tan" is still going to always be KROWTAN If you really want stretch use the oil they sell too. If you would like more info on it just give me a shout.. max ;D
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Max, IN MY OPINION, Krowtan is just a pickle. Check the pH. But this horse was killed long ago and we don't need to flog him any more. You have YOUR opinion and I have mine. I just want to insure this is "fair and balanced". And as OS said, no shop tan is as good as a professional one PERIOD.
     
  20. max

    max New Member

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    George, I humbly agree and by no means challenge the pro tanners. I just like it over wipe ons thats all. max :-[