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Remember that coyote on ebay that looked like a dog? Look...

Discussion in 'Lifesize Mammals' started by Bill Yox, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. It's scary how location makes people think something could be what it really isn't. i almost shot a dog while coyote hunting...some big mutt mix that had coyote type markings..In the middle of nowhere in Jan. ,snowing.....The dog and it's idiot owner hiked way up in the woods to see what was squealing.....i was 95% certain it was a coyote......was a trigger pull away from making a terrible mistake... Luckily,my hunting partner spotted the woman 50 yards back from her collarless dog....too close for me....
     
  2. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Bill, thanks, at least you hear what I was trying to say, lol.
     

  3. Im thinking if Goddess only knew the true meaning of pleasure to Get Bill all uppity was by rubbing warm massage oil into his slick shiny head, she would go for it !! Hell Bill would probably give her is first born and a couple of them penned deer for an oil experience LOL
     
  4. AMCTaxi

    AMCTaxi Wholesale Small Mammal Taxidermist

    a customer brought me one of these coydog/feral dog/whatever the hell it is a few years back to be made into a rug. here is the animal when they dropped it off. I made a thread on it back then and it generated a lot of heat over what it was. I think it was a hybrid. It had the yellow eyes of a coyote and that sealed it for me.
     
  5. Sorry Bill Y, I like arguing genetics. :)
    Is it really eye color that seels the deal?
    Anyway, here is a list (which pictures, of Siberian Husky eye colors. At the bottom of the list, you can see that the yellow amber is listed as an acceptable by the AKC breed standard.

    <img src="http://www.huskycolors.com/images/eye/eyespud.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.huskycolors.com/images/eye/eyesebastian.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.huskycolors.com/images/eye/eyespike.jpg">

    http://www.huskycolors.com/eye.html

    I know that doesn't help anyone, if anything it confuses everyone even more. I agree that only DNA testing would lead to definate results.... that would make such a great study. Genetics is a fun topic, I'm sure that over the centuries domestic dog and wild canines have further muddled their genetic differences by occassionally breeding together... but I find no moral problem with having an occasional animal like this trapped. It's still an interesting specimen, maybe less so than say a horse/zebra cross... but still it's unusal... but my interests in taxidermy might be very different from the rest of you. I wonder if coyote-dog hybrids make lousy coyotes, and should be trapped anyway to remove the animals from further muddling the coyote blood line, and the same for wolf-hybrids. I dunno, just a thought.

    But if the arguement is about parading domestic dogs as unusually colored coyotes.... well... thats not right. It's being false. What's the pride in trapping a dog? Its not an animal you have outsmarted, it trusts human smell.
     
  6. forgive me for sounding like a complete dork, but I was actually really excited to find this study:

    http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/dnaid.htm

    It goes through a long thing about mitochondrial DNA, and how maternal heritage is where it's at... and then a study involving a multitude of canine specimens (dog breeds, wolf species, coyote species, cape dogs, dingo, etc) from different parts of the world and bam! :

    "It is the similarities that are striking. That domestic dogs and wild wolves share maternal ancestors, and that they are more closely related than even wolves and coyotes is the unexpected discovery in these data. Many people don't like these results. The people involved with the red wolf recovery program are dismayed because the animals tested show a large percentage of coyote genes... Many dog fanciers like to think their breed traces directly back to ancient originals. They see their breed on the Bayeux tapestry, created to celebrate William the Conqueror's successful invasion of England in 1066. But the data do not support these fantasies. Types or breeds of dogs are created, reshuffled, and recreated. Superficial characters like size or color or shape are not indicative of a pure genetic ancestry."

    Pretty cool. If those characteristics like color could be reshuffled, then why not in the coyote world, with a very rare coat looking remarkably husky like?
     
  7. zachhanel

    zachhanel New Member

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    because they are infertile and besides that, coyotes don't naturally breed with dogs, they may be similar genes but do you really think a domestic dog is going to go with a coyote and not get beaten up or kill that coyote and even if they did breed that study said those crosses were infertile so it really wouldn't be able to reproduse and make a coyusky, that first pic is a DOG not a coyote, and that is a common practice to mix dogs to make dogs there really is no purebred even the purebreds come from a cross but thats alot different then what this thread was about, this thread kinda said just cause somebody stuffs a dog doesn't make it a yote but that study was okay but telling a domestic dog should not be that difficult even with there was some half dog yote and it came to a call like what was mentioned in the earlier post would you shoot seeing it really looked like a dog, the point is even though coyotes have different color phases a husky is not a coyote, a malamute is not a coyote so why argue that its a coyote when its not even if it might not be far off it still is not a coyote just like i'm NOT a chimpanzee
     
  8. Zachhanel, are you referring to me? and my posts?

    Okay, well... No, they are Not Infertile.

    I'm familiar with the viable/fertile aspect of genetics. Mix a horse and a zebra, and you get a zorse... and it is Viable, in that it is alive and healthy, but it is infertile, in that.. it can't reproduce.
    But, mix a wolf and a dog, and you get a Viable, and Fertile animal. This animal can continue to reproduce, maybe again with wolves, so the result is a litter... each pup 3/4 wolf, and 1/4 dog.

    The interesting thing about the study, for me, was that they placed wolves and dogs closer together on the genetic scale than coyotes and dogs.... but I still did not read anything about them being infertile. If I missed it, please quote it for me. The study did mention they were "INTER"fertile... as in, they can reproduce amongst themselves.... interbreed... is that what you read? I misread it as infertile too as first.

    I dont think the human/chimp example you brought up applies to this topic. We can NOT mate with Chimps, and produce viable offspring, nevermind fertile offspring. but Dogs CAN mate with coyotes. Coyotes CAN mate with wolves. Wolves CAN mate with coyotes. It doesnt happen often, but according to the study, it does happen enough to get genetic movement along different "species". To define a species of animal... I'm sure it says one species may only breed within itself,... and No, you are not a chimpanzee... Neither am I, we are a completely different species, although closely related.... But it is not so black and white with coyote and wolf species. There is a huge debate going on currently regarding the different species of wolf.... namely the red wolf, that topic is also mentioned in the study, tho briefly.


    Oh yeah, what picture are you talking about? You said that the first is a dog, but if you are talking about my post... well all three of those pairs of eyes belonged to dogs... siberian huskies in fact... as per the author of that website. Or are you talking about the picture Bill put up?


     
  9. Paul K

    Paul K New Member

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    I remember a thread back a year or two ago , I think maybe Taxidermologist posted. Anyway it referenced some definite genetic differences and visable ways to distinguish Dogs from yotes , it had to do with the coloration bands in the hair roots of each specie or something like that.............I cant exactly remember , I cant locate it in the archives maybe someone else can. It was a pretty interesting read. If it shows up maybe Bill could pull a hair and put to rest all the opinions. Mine is that it's dog blood.
     
  10. Paul, how cool.. I'd love to see it if you find it! It would really help clear up a lot of guesswork. :)
     
  11. zachhanel

    zachhanel New Member

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    amen, and i'm permanently confused on this topic but i still say the first ones a husky
     
  12. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Bill CANT pull a hair, cuz he already said, its NOT his mount. Anyway, Allistair, its now common knowledge that the red wolf is becoming extinct in large part because of its willingness to cross with "eastbound" coyotes. Our eastern "super"coyotes are known to have this blood. The whole debate about coydogs is hinged on incoming coyotes into a new range possibly breeding with domestics, like feral dogs. Guys like me say it doesnt happen very often, others feel it does. I say the resulting pups would cycle at the wrong time, putting pups on the ground in cold weather, etc. Plus the obvious dynamics of competition with high level predators just suggests it doesnt happen too often.
     
  13. Wolfwoman

    Wolfwoman $90 for your fur made into trapper hat or mitts!

    4 bars on yote fur is what I remember... here's a pic...

    [​IMG]
     
  14. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    Well this one doesn't look husky but it sure was a weird coyote as far as the skinning went.. This one has some tough skin.. every part of this yotes skin was tougher then it's darker relation. Cool ain't it??
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    coydog or coyote?
     
  15. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Coyote all day long. These easterns decended from Red Wolves, we see that color often. I think its a beauty! No coydog this time, no way.
     
  16. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    Ah, this is fascinating to learn, thank you. I wish all the coyotes had skin that was as tough as this ones is. I would say that MI is Eastern as well as NY :) thanks.
     
  17. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Msbrain, I am not an authority, but Im willing to bet on a hunch that you get the same big eastern super coyote that we do. Heavier hide, very strong thick extremity joints, etc, and those offset teeth. Let me guess, if you even measured, a 4 1/4 eye to nose, and about 38 lbs minimum? Ours start there on a female, and will go through 55 or so on bigger males.
     
  18. Totally agree with Bill. Coyote all the way. I've also got one of these beauties...brightest orange I've ever seen. It came from Eastern Canada. I also had a super dark red one that I traded a while ago. It was as red as a cherry red fox. Take a look :) The pictures don't do the color justice, they are a lot more vibrant. :-\

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I really like talking about these color phases, etc. Nature Goddess, I like the reds the best myself, and I was fortunate to mount a really red one much like the skin you show there. I once saw a red coyote as a trapper skin, and that one was absolutely red, its was really so dark and pure. I so kick myself for not getting it. Allistair, I dont think you sound like a dork for liking this stuff...if you are, then...um, that makes me one too, lol. I do have to fess, though...reading my earlier posts here, I realize that sometimes I come off as sounding almost mad or irritated, when thats not how I was. I guess I need to start using those smiley faces...yeck! Oh alright, ;D
     
  20. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    8,017
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    Bill.....my wife says that arrogance comes from being an Aries. If you recall you & her share the same birthday, so she knows whereof she speaks. And I have to live with her.