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Professional tanning- Is there such a thing today?

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Rhino, May 28, 2008.

  1. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    I'm not asking this to be smart or anything.Have you done taxidermy work OS? I'm asking because I don't know...................
  2. George so you may have tried KT once, but you should be smart enough to know it take a couple times to figure anything out.

    Next by your own darned admittion you said you would not try it the first time due to the smell.

    Your so great JRTS has BHT BHA both food preservitives, tanning oil and formic acid in it. the formic is what you said made your fingers numb.

    You have been called about KT more than once and you once said you always return your calls.

    Now let me break things down for you a bit, you called me stupid hardly!!! I can hold my own and since you know the ASVAB test I scored 128 on it first try.
    Next I am far from stupid but you fill your messeges with calling everyone stupid that does not agree with you.

    I simply know GEORGE is nothing more than a JERK doing his best to disrespect people, he only respects those who fall into his ways. He cant handle someone standing up against him and his beielfs, not much better than a Mid-eastern radical, except George speaks good english

    Using JRTS will do a couple things KISS and the next is yourshop will have a moldy smell from the heads mounted with it. Now if its so darn good George why not use it on your small mammals?

    You admit to using DP on small mammals, so why do you not use your glorious JRTS on them too.

    To many thng George that you say about KT proves you have not used it more than once if that.

    It works and works well dispite your thoughts.

    LUTAN-F I have told you several times is an alum tan, developed in 1940 byt he NAZIS!!!! Primary ingrediant ALUMINUM CHLORIDE, secondary ingredient Aluminum Sulphate.

    OH gezz golly its alum in two ways!!

    Yea its bad when beginners get screwed on tanning, so wha makes a professinal tannery?
    Time, Quailty or what.

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    John, you know, I'm capable of stooping to your level of ignorance, but tonight I feel lucky and I think I'll pass tonight. I'll see if I can find that barbed wire dildo in case I don't feel this way tomorrow.

    Some of the most historic tans found in museums were, in fact, vegetable tans. Even the word "tan" comes from the bark of trees with their tannic acid. And as far as my hand going numb, that was caused by an idiotic move of reaching into a vat of formaldehyde to retrieve a set of velvet antlers (Wasn't going to take but a second to do it, so what could it hurt? DUH! It could make you lose your sense of touch in your fingers is what it could do.)

    As far as Lutan, let me just cut and paste an entry from this forum:

    BASF says.................
    This response submitted by Bruce Rittel on 12/08/2003. ( [email protected] )
    They say it's a complex Salt of Aluminum Chloride because its a by-product of another process they do. So.....it contains small amounts of other materials too! They do not appear to be hazardous - otherwise they would appear on their MSDS sheet. They do not. Is that your concern? Otherwise - plain aluminum Chloride simply isnt Lutan F (N)!

    Right below that, a guy says:
    This response submitted by JOhn C on 12/09/2003. ( )
    A few years back I tried 99% AC from BASF, it did not work the same, by its self its not as good as Aluminum Sulphate.

    I didn't comment on that since I haven't used Lutan (F) since sometime in the late 60's I suppose.

    And yes, I use DP on small game and birds all the time. I use it simply because I can get a fresh hide on a manikin faster than the bacteria can spoil the hide and the hair slips out. JRTS requires a 24 hour salt and then washing + a 6 hour wait on the tanning process to penetrate. By that time, the mount is already drying.

    And since your commenting on the "smell" of my shop, I don't recall you ever having been in there. I do recall Ken Walker being there numerous times and Tom Cruickshank was in there a couple months back. Perhaps they'd like to tell you how filthy, moldy and smelly my shop was. I wouldn't DARE have you take my word on it.

    Tom, to answer your question, OS is a tanner and a shaver at a professional tannery. He understands that in it's purest form, tanning and taxidermy are two disctinct yet separate processes. He specializes in his side and leaves our side to us.

  4. Yes tanning and taxidermy are different, but a taxidermist without basic tanning knowledge is missing part of his trade just as a tanner without basic taxidermy skills would be.

    A professional makes money with his trade. If you are good at it, you will have many returns. If not, no repeat business. That is it in a nutshell. I know countless taxidermists that are pros and have never put a ribbon on the wall, but make a good living with the repeat business they get from satisfied customers.

    If you are satisfying your customer and getting paid for it, you are a professional and no one will question it. They will just keep coming back.
  5. Right below that, a guy says:
    This response submitted by JOhn C on 12/09/2003. ( )
    A few years back I tried 99% AC from BASF, it did not work the same, by its self its not as good as Aluminum Sulphate.

    five years ago.

    George maybe you are stuck on stupid but I am not and I am willing to change. To bad you have to try to bully everyone.

    You will never bully me.

    I certainly am willing to try different things but you are something else if its not your way its not right, yet you claim other wise. hen you will come back and say "I have seen sulphate tans in the Smith blah blah and they crack and blah blah."

    I will say yep and those form are paper at best and they have not seen the best care in the world either.

    So George I offered a bit of a challange you up for it?
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    John, I guess I was unaware I "bullied" anyone. I guess it's a matter of perception over reality, but you seem to have been good at that in all the time I've known you anyway. As I've said dozens of times here and you seem to fail to understand, I really don't GIVE a damn how or what you or anyone like you does. Anytime anyone challenges you, you launch into this tirade. I recall you saying the same things about Rusty Garret some years back, so obviously you ain't getting virgin meat here. I don't think I ever recall EVER seeing anything you've mounted posted here or anyplace else. If I missed that, I apologize, but that's from my memory which ain't the best sometimes.

    "So George I offered a bit of a challange you up for it?"

    There's mine to you. I'll be your huckleberry. Say when.
  7. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    OS ' The ONLY reason I asked that was out of curiosity.There is no doubt that you know more about tanning and the different species out there.........

    George YOU are a BULLY at times and you know it...........

    I've also seen you launch into tirades on many occasions when someone challenges you...............

    Who cares if John C ever posts a mount on here..........What's that got to do with it? Are you going to start cutting his work down? How childish is that?..............
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tom, your bleeding heart precedes you and you know NOTHING about the history here. Don't step in something that won't wash off in the shower. If you could understand English, you'd know that "bullying" is an impossible feat with the written word. You either continue to argue or you quit, but no one gets physically moved. If YOU feel bullied, it's because your argument is weak. That's not my fault. John is always harping on how things should be done, no differently than me at times, but as I said, you don't have a CLUE as to the history here. John BEGGED me to give him a seminar at the NTA which I did. He never showed up or even called me to cancel out. He did send me an email and promise to do one at the NEXT show. I put him on the program and he never showed up. At the World Show he whined until he was listed on the program to give a seminar. Didn't show there either. Now if you didn't just barge in here with your comments, what would you think of someone like me who did those things??? I won't need to say a word about his work if he posts it here. Why would I care. But it would seem that all of us who've been mainstays here have, at some point, been challenged to put our money where our mouths are. If you don't blow your own horn sometime, most people will assume your battery is dead. My work's been on here several times and it's gotten hammered on occasion. It just goes with the territory. But I would THINK that someone who extols the virtues of some product and then ridicules someone else would offer some visual proof of his accomplishments.

    And as for you comments about "childish", that only shows me that you've run out of other things to try and "bully" me. Nice try, but simply words to me.
  9. George you are a lair, plain flat and out right liar.

    this is why!

    Quote "John BEGGED me to give him a seminar at the NTA which I did."

    I never begged or even ask you to give me or anyone any seminar.

    Either you are lying right thru your finger tips or you have confused me with someone else. The reason is pretty simple.

    No need to make up lies, sad old man!!! You can stir up a fight any other way than to lie.
  10. John, that is the most ridiculous 5hit I have ever heard of! If you think Hitler, and his advisor's were that stupid, to actually worry about a leather tannage, and not about their war machine, you are retarded! This ranks up there with you talking about you wife's pantie stains!!! What, did they want to put leather seats in, the 109??? The stuka already had fuzzy dice!LOL

    OS you proved you dont know much about the LUTAN history, yep the NAZIS had a lot of probelms and making leather was one of them!! Back in the 1930's1940's leather was a big part of the war machine and due to shortages of natural products they had to develope the synthetic tan and thus thats it in a nut shell.

    There were not huge numbers of synthetic rubbers and plastics around, even parashute were silk and not nylon, yes silk!! Nylon was a new developement. Harness for paratroopers where leather, gun slings were leather, bearing seals were leatherm engines seals were two things cardboard which was glued on with copper based glue and the oil seals were LEATHER.

    The list goes on, leather was a huge part of the WAR MACHINES on both sides and of course Germany had few oil fields and the developement of synthetic plastics was just beginning. OS I thought you were old enough to have some knowledge of history and what and how things were done in the so called good old days.
    Yep leather was a huge deal back then even look at the uniform pieces that were leather and with huge shortages the rest is history.

    Where do you thing the company BASF began?, The did not make the lather just made it better.

    OS I guess thats why there are other tanneries, ( that are higly recommended too) you cant please everyone all the time. plus the risk of shipping and so on.

    Goerge you dont have the whole story about Garrett so you dont need to show how little you know. Hearsay, you know what they say about heresay.

    George I guess you are slower than molasses, I have posted pics here in the gamehead and bird catagory along with a lot of fish.

    Hucklleberry its a tanning challenge. Your JRT Cream against Krowtann. I have some bear I did in house and they are pretty fair I think.
  11. Becky P

    Becky P One must believe the glass is half full.

    Does any tannery use JRTS?
  12. jcompton

    jcompton “One of these days Alice. Pow!Right in the kisser"

    Sweet baby Jesus!!!! All this over a bottle of Krowtann.Does anyone on here have or know anyone that has any mounts that have been Krowtanned when the stuff first came out ( not sure when that was) just to see how they are holding up?
  13. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

  14. jcompton

    jcompton “One of these days Alice. Pow!Right in the kisser"

    LOL Thats a long time! There should be some really good (or bad) examples of how the stuff holds up.
  15. paul e

    paul e New Member

    i figured Glen would stir the pot at some point
    good one Glen lmao
  16. Peggy Obear

    Peggy Obear New Member

    Well at some point in taxidermy career you would hope to get busy enough where you need to decide if it is going to be taxidermy or tanning. We went with taxidermy.
    As to the tanners the ones that are good and have been at it along time are back logged like the old time taxidermy companies, if your business is to new or to slow to handle a back log of 6 months or so then you will need to do in house or try the "new guys" but there are good ones out there, just check out the end product and don't send your first batch of African hides until you know you are getting a good tan.
  17. Peggy Obear

    Peggy Obear New Member

    That being said I think I can find something more exciting to get all lathered up over.
  18. Peggy,
    It started with a poorly tanned bear. We never got the beans (OS ate them) on who or how the bear was tanned. OS was heading toward home tanning kits...I think. A bear is tough to take on in a home setting without a good understanding of what is going on in the leather at every step.

    George and others have posted 10,000 combined posts about how difficult bears are to do...send them out. But, that doesn't stop someone from trying to reinvent the wheel with some home kit.

    I have seen KT deer and small game and they seem fine. I don't think the product was around in 3,000 BCE, but who knows? Is that how King Tut looked so good? Or was it the KT curse? Anyhow...the Queen of De Nial was a double entendre'. Some folks will never accept the product and that is their choice. I don't use it, but I have seen home tanners turn out some very good mounts with it. Maybe in another 3,000 years we will know for sure....

    Funny Glen!
  19. OS, Is that a bit of overspray from that brown bear I see there on your left nostril?? Wait a minute...I don't think that stuff is paint...LOL ;D
  20. James Marsico

    James Marsico Well-Known Member

    I know a professional tannery that earned its great reputation over about 50 years and now I believe (and these are my opinions after over 38 years in this business) they suck so bad in quality on skins that must be mounted they can hurt your business or even put you out of business. I believe .... is close second for a big company that doesn't give a dam. I have tried one man start up tanneries and it has never worked out for long for me and it is plain just to risky when you think on it long. The skins don't belong to us they belong to our paying clients. I have also tried to do most tanning in house and the "real" costs and time in it ate my lunch; enough of that crap. I am a taxidermist, not a tannery. Managing time and money in a full time taxidermy business is difficult and takes a firm commitment. I like to be loyal to a tannery but I was for to long with one. Some have great service and a good wet tan and I send them all my African for wet tan but they are not great otherwise. Choosing a tannery is difficult and a huge expense esp. now with really high shipping rates. A full time taxidermist has to charge a very good price for the work that we do. We have to remember people can live without taxidermy. Taxidermy is a luxury product and it should cost like it is! Otherwise the taxidermist will be out of business in just a few years and or go into ultra heavy debt very fast and the speed of failure for the stubborn and taxidermists with zero business savvy is going to increase fast with these rising truck and shipping costs. The tanneries and taxidermy supply companies count on a very high turnover among us so I guess its all a good thing for them.