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Pickling problem?

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Bobbym1232, Dec 1, 2006.

  1. Bobbym1232

    Bobbym1232 New Member

    Has anyone ever had a problem with all the hair falling out of a hide after pickling? Would this mean that the pickle pH was off. I mixed 1gal vineger & 2lbs of salt for each gallon of water.
     
  2. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    What was the pH of the pickle?
     

  3. paul e

    paul e New Member

    1,372
    0
    Bobby sorry to hear you had this happen
    can you tell us the procedure and all the chemicals you used
    was their any soak involved
    did the cape take one of those ice soaks etc.,etc.
    some capes just go to hell
    but they are rare
    its usually caused by field care
    but sometimes there are other factors
    give us some more food for thought
    maybe someone can solve the mystery or shed some light
     
  4. Bobbym1232

    Bobbym1232 New Member

    Paul e, I sent you a PM if you could possibly help explain. Thanks.
     
  5. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    The max ammount of vinegar that should be used, is around a quart, per gallon of water, with 1lb of salt per gallon. I wouldnt think you would need more than 20 ounces of vinegar, per gallon, unless you have hard water. Vinegar is a weak acid, and doesnt maintain its ph very well, so you have to stay on top of the ph monitoring. This is just a guess, but if you used a gallon of vinegar per gallon of water, as you said, you might have damaged the hair roots. Was any of the loose hair curled? Ive never used vinegar, and any input from people that do, would be welcome. Maybe Glen, Bruce Rittel, or Mark Daniels, could shed a little more light on this subject.
     
  6. paul e

    paul e New Member

    1,372
    0
    Bobby i replied to you email
    i see after reading the previous post it might be the concentration and the vinegar
    you used
    maybe something else
    I'm not familiar with vinegar as a pickle
    and have not tested anything with it
    i would still pick Uncle Glens brain
    maybe some cancellations going on here
     
  7. Bobbym1232

    Bobbym1232 New Member

    I will double check again. I had the directions written down along with the mixture concentrations, maybe I could have written something down wrong. I'm fairly certian this is the mixture I used on a previous hide and had no problems. I sent the question to Glen so hopefully he can help figure this out. I'll let you know what he says. Thanks for the input.
     
  8. Bobbym1232

    Bobbym1232 New Member

    I just read the McKenzie tan instructions online and they are different than the ones I recieved on the McKenzie Home Tanning Kit i purchased a while back. I guess saftee acid is a better choice than vinegar for the pickle.
     
  9. JL

    JL Taxidermist for 64 years

    Bobby...no matter what acid you use in your pickle you must measure the PH with PH paper to be certain that the PH is below 2 to be effective and (one) is best.And you have to keep it at this level as long as you have skins or capes in the mix by adding acid as needed. Good luck...JL
     
  10. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    C'mon Glen, I want to here your take on this! You always give good food for thought!
     
  11. Bruce_Rittel

    Bruce_Rittel Consultant Services

    I'm not Glen - but using a White Vinegar Pickle shouldnt cause any problems. White Vinegar contains 6% Acetic Acid - so if you use 2 Quarts of White Vinegar, 2 quarts of Water, and 1 Lb. of Salt - you should be fine. The Ph should test about 2.2-2.5 depending on your local water.

    That said - if you encounter problems - it's more than likely not the pickle but the care the skin or cape recieved in the field before you recieved it. Pickles firm the skin and its highly unusual for them to have slippage if the formula is mixed correctly.

    Were these skins or capes first fleshed, salted and dried before rehydrating them and pickling them? Or thrown in the pickle simply fleshed?
     
  12. Bobbym1232

    Bobbym1232 New Member

    Bruce,
    I first removed all the meat and then put it straight into the pickle. I didn't salt overnight like usual. I figured that skipping this step had a lot to do with it. And I did check on the concentrations and I had them right. 1 gal white distilled vinegar & 2lb salt per gallon of water. So the pH should be fine. thanks again for the feedback
     
  13. paul e

    paul e New Member

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    Bobby that is something i never do
    i either salt
    or at the very least do a strong salt brine soak after rough fleshing and splitting then pickle,shave,neutralize,tann etc.
    only krowtann as far as i know goes straight from splitting to soaking
    i would not recommend you do that again
     
  14. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001


    There's your likely problem, you cannot just assume that your pH is fine, you have to measure it.
     
  15. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    I just got busted. I never used vinegar, but the website I researched called for 16-32oz per gallon of water. Never having used it, thats where I got my info. I neglected to read the part about adding 1-2 oz. of a pickle axillary, which is what actually lowered the ph to an acceptable level. Thanks for clearing that up Bruce! Yall will have to excuse me, while I go find something to pry my foot out of my mouth.
     
  16. oldterryr

    oldterryr Terry's in Heaven with no worries at all.

    when i am soft tanning i use safety acid and NEVER salt first - its a wasted step - nop slippage yet
     
  17. I hate to do this but there is one easier solution...."Krowtann"...(MESSAGE!!!!)
     
  18. Bobbym1232

    Bobbym1232 New Member

    Ok, for all of you waiting to hear what Glen's take on the matter, here it is. From what I understood, the bacteria that were present on the cape before the pickle had a natural resistance to the salt, and the pickle may have had an excelerating effect on the bacteria. In turn causing the hide to spoil.

    I did get three extra hides the other day and tried it again. Although I did salt them overnight this time before the pickle. I pulled them out last night and fleshed. They were all good. I have the tan on them as we speak and it is all going good. So after hearing all the input, I'm now thinking that the cape was iffy to start with.

     
  19. cold trapper

    cold trapper age 15 a trapperman w/7 prime rats!

    hi, i too have had poor luck w/ vinegar pickels. seems to me the acid just does not have the strength to penitrate well. :'(
    i will never use again!! ;D
     
  20. paul e

    paul e New Member

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    good info
    what Glen said explains a lot
    i used to get a lot of dear from the area around here
    there are several floating marshes close by
    the kind where you step and start to sink
    its very brackish
    man oh man that explains a lot
    great info Uncle Glen