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Aren't most deer forms incorrect at the base of the skull???

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by SCT, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. SCT

    SCT New Member

    That may be the best eye photo i've ever seen. Do you have any photos with good lighting of the head/upper neck?? Thanks, Steve
     
  2. cht

    cht New Member

    What angle are you looking for top, bottom, side ?
     

  3. SCT

    SCT New Member

    Side, I'm looking for clear reference showing the angle and depth of the atlas vertabrae where it sticks out furthest behind the jawbone.
     
  4. cht

    cht New Member

    Well I went out to the pen to try to get that pic ??? That one is going to be tough, I can sure feel it there but getting it to show up on camera?It will take a better pic taker than I, I took some pics but they don't show the detail that your looking for. I'll keep at it ,I take my camera out there at least once a week , Keep in mind my deer are only 13 months old. Cimmeron, Duffas and Parris
     
  5. SCT

    SCT New Member

    That's cool, thanks for trying. Love the eye shot...
     
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    CHT, I just gotta ask. In another post there this great move to "lay" eyelids. The picture you posted, those look as if they've been tucked very well. ROTFLMAO
     
  7. cht

    cht New Member

    mother nature tucked those
     
  8. cht

    cht New Member

    Here is the other eye
     
  9. livbucks

    livbucks Well-Known Member

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    Touche' Old Man...
    Believe me, I listen. I want to try the lay method, but I still listen to what you're saying. I never fall completely in love with anything. Even Mrs. Livbucks has to watch her behavior.

    Here's a twist on the influence of modern hunter humans...
    Whan I was a kid, just starting out hunting, say....30 years ago, Ahemmmm..
    When we would spook deer back then, they would tear ass away with tails flying high and blowing like trumpets. Now they don't seem to do that. In the last few years I have noticed that they will slink away without all the fanfare. If a behavioral trait can be bred out, why would it be out of the question for an anatomical trait to be bred IN?
    My guess on the absence of tail wagging is that the deer that liked to do this got blasted as they ran, and the ones that didn't tend to do this actually got away and lived to breed. I don't buy that the deer LEARNED how to evade, just that tendencies one way or the other were bred out or in of the population.

    My guess on short neck/long neck is that a flat treeless terrain would lend itself to long necks, and steep/forested terrain to short necks. How would a long neck on a horse affect how it ran up and especially down a mountain? We all know what it is like to go down a steep incline on a horse. Would you rather the horses neck be long or short, when you go down/UP? Which deer would do better in a hard winter with overbrowsed conditions? Long...or short? Many variables.

    I actully skipped a little on the thread..a lot of reading and many tangents that I had a hard time following due to A.D.D. I'm trying to keep up G.C.
     
  10. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Hell, in our lifetimes we have watched turkeys become call shy and stop gobbling upon hitting the ground in coyote saturated areas...that doesnt mean that physically their throats have evolved to not be able to gobble as much...

    I talk to many who are altering the form so the tanned cape fits better, accusing the form of being wrong, etc, and not ever even taking into consideration that the skin couldve let out or become somewhat distorted in our quest for stretch. The obvious is often right at the end of our noses...or fingertips. I think we make this too hard sometimes.
     
  11. livbucks

    livbucks Well-Known Member

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    I"ll agree there Bill, I have had some that stretched too much, and some with no stretch. Another variable?
    I don't think it's so hard to just compress a long neck to fit a shorter form. Much better than the other way.
    I do believe that deer necks will vary though, as in people,.... same-same.
     
  12. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    I wouldn't accept that either.

    However, what I would accept is that more than one trait was present, and expressed. The expressed trait unsuitable for survival in a "synthetic" environment gets taken out, leaving the opposite trait to reproduce.

    Selection is selection is selection.
     
  13. Shannon

    Shannon New Member

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    Chris- I'd love to come over and check your deer out sometime. Very cool of you to make me the offer. We drink the same kind of beer,(Coors light) I'll bring some when I come, if thats O.K. ;) I remember back when you got them and posted pics, cute little buggers. And that eye picture is sweet! If what George said is true about the eye picture, if your making eyes look that soft and natural, my advice to you is you better start teaching classes! ;D
     
  14. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Why that sumbeech just posted another picture!
     
  15. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    OH NO! Now you've done it Bill. You used that magic word. Ohh, I'm gonna tell. I'm gonna report you to the moderator. You used EVOLVE. What were you thinking? You know, that's right up there with EVOLUTION. LMAO

    Glen, if he don't look up dere, how he know it's worth standin on his back hoofs for?
     
  16. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    I think Bill and I should do a syndicated radio talk show, kinda like the Siskel and Ebert routine. Giving thumbs up, and thumbs down, AFTER we have explained our critiques.

    We can even put his name first on the show bill. Yox and Conley, that way he'll know what us C's felt like going through first while the Y's stood back and watched.
     
  17. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    The bottom line for me is , does the finished mount look like the live deer reference for a mature buck for that time of year that it was collected. There are way to many variables now . Hundreds of whitetail forms to choose from and we are not satisfied. Deer killed within a 24 hr. period and brought in the same day are very different. Some are swelled and some are not. Some are fat and some are not. Everything you can compare to can be different.
     
  18. SCT

    SCT New Member

    True dat!!! That's why I'm just trying to get to average......for now.
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    But I hope most of you recognize that we're doing this for the love of the animal and our pride in reproducing it as close to real life as we're capable. But how many of your customers tell you, "Oh I never noticed that. When I look at my deer, all I see is his horns."
     
  20. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Ditto, but with an addition, if the guy brings his wife, she'll look at and pick over eveything except the horns.